Guardians of The Lambsfoot!

I have a fit/finish/QA question for A. Wright produced Lambsfoots...a little off topic from the last few pages of discussion, but I know it has come up previously. Can anyone comment on blade curvature on their knives?

I ordered a horn handled knife that showed up not as well put together as I would have liked, but I knew previous discussion from this thread about folks culling through knives in person to find good examples. With that in mind, I wouldn't have been disappointed, except for the bends in the knife. The handle was bent in one direction and the blade in the opposite direction, such that it actually had blade rub against one liner in the middle of the blade and the opposite liner at the tip. I didn't care about the blade rub, but the blade curvature means that I would never be able to sharpen it on a flat bench stone.

I absolutely loved the profile of the knife, both in hand and aesthetically, so I took a chance on another one...plain rosewood from a different seller. This knife is better finished, blade centered, but still with some curvature. Just enough so that it wouldn't lay on flat bench stone.

Getting to the point, do folks have examples with straight blades? Or do I just have to accept sharpening on a rod or narrow stone?
 
Archie, I have about ten A.Wright knives, and have never seen your problem!
It's such a pain to send it back, but I probably would anyway!
I'd like to see a pic, but it sounds far from acceptable! I bought a Case that had a problem like you describe, and the factory replaced it!
I asked them about it when I visited the factory. They told me that every once in a while, a blade will curl from an uneven heat treat, and it can occur as the finished knife sits in a box for a week, a month, or a year!!
 
Archie: firstly, welcome! And I'm glad that you liked the Lambsfoot pattern enough to give it another go, after your experience with your first knife.

I have five A. Wright knives: three of them are Lambsfoot patterns, all of them are straight edged blade designs.

I'm going to be absolutely honest with you. None of them are perfectly straight in the blade, however, having said that, no knife blades are exactly laser straight. It's in the nature of a geometrically varied shape, to dimensionally alter when it goes through an extremely stressful thermal process like heating to induce austenitic transformation, and then rapid quenching to transform that austenitic structure to martensite.

Although I'm not a metallurgist (so take my words with a large grain of salt), I understand the transformation from austenite to martensite involves crystalline 'grain' growth of up to 14%. Variations in the blade steel cross section, like plunge lines, nail nicks, swedges, and the tapering thickness from the spine to the edge, can all induce some level of ripple, or 'curvature' along the blade flats, as you say. Also. as Charlie noted, any retained austenite in the steel, post heat treat, can transform to martensite later, either from being worked, or just from the passing of time. Considering the dimensional difference between cubic austenite, compared to tetragonal martensite, this is what can cause the bending over time, which the Case representatives referred to. This is also why (in general), heat treating should aim at minimal retained austenite.

So, essentially I think, what we are looking for, is a blade that is not so rippled that it drags on one side in cutting, due to longitudinal bending, and, as you observed, can lay flat on a bench stone for sharpening.

Of my three A. Wright Lambsfoot knives, I have actually sharpened them in three different ways, as I also observed the same issue you did. I should also say here, that I was taught how to assess blade straightness by my friend, ABS Mastersmith, Murray Carter, and it's a double edged sword, that I certainly haven't employed to assess all of my knives. Murray mentioned that it's impolite to give a rigorous straightness inspection to custom knives in front of the maker, and there are many, many knives which are far more expensive than these A. Wright working tools, which are very rippled on close scrutiny. This includes master forged katanas, and the highest end kitchen knives. The two best of my A. Wright Lambsfoot knives are, for my purposes, well within the margin of acceptability.

One of these - my Ebony Lambsfoot, I sharpen with ceramic rods, which 'follow' the slight deviation along the edge apex. I use a Spyderco Sharpmaker, but a Lansky crock set, or a ceramic/diamond or traditional metal steel will also be effective. My stag handled Lambsfoot (a generous gift from a very generous Porch member;)) has been sharpened in a different way. I laid it with the spine very close to touching a coarse 400 grit Chosera waterstone, and stripped off a lot of material just behind the edge, to thin it out behind the edge apex, then applied an apex 'bevel' with the Spyderco Sharpmaker. The 'curvature' is visible in the varying bevel height, but it is extremely sharp, and also very easy to resharpen, and that is what is important to me.

xhI0JHb.jpg


My golden ox-horn handled Lambsfoot was more problematic, and I believe this is probably the most similar to the issues you described with your first Lambsfoot.

I have described my treatment of this knife before in this thread, and in the end, I would recommend the following options.

-Return it and contact me by PM for a more reliable dealer, who will examine, and possibly hand select your knife before shipping.

-Use the technique I did on my golden ox-horn Lambsfoot of grinding the flats heavily, to recentre them and thin them out as much as possible, before applying the edge apex.

-Use a rod based sharpening system with a small contact area, that 'follows' the slight blade ripple.

I should add that it is my belief that A. Wright & Son have increased their QC over the last few years, as their workers have gained in experience, and as they have become more aware of what collectors deem important (which is not at all the same as what makes a good usin' knife IMHO.) A. Wright & Son are one of the only makers I am aware of in Sheffield who have put on apprentice cutlers in recent years (who, I understand have now completed their apprenticeships). This is a practise that, personally, I am willing to support with my continued business, and that I applaud; and am also willing to give a little leeway for.

It is also worth stating that I understand that some of the very fine work on this recent superb run of Guardians 2017 Lambsfoot knives was performed by some of those newest Sheffield working cutlers, who were recently apprentices in training at A. Wright.
 
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mrknife said:
"smells like victory"
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waynorth said:
You got it!!!:cool:
:D
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:D :thumbsup:

supratentorial said:
Woah ! I got behind reading this topic and missed all of this ! Very cool, Jack !!!
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Sorry you missed it Jake, thanks my friend :thumbsup:

gonebad395 said:
Yeah jack really set the bar here. Stunning knives for sure
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lambertiana said:
They look great, Jack! I can't wait! Thanks for making this possible!
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Thanks a lot guys :) :thumbsup:

Archie said:
I have a fit/finish/QA question for A. Wright produced Lambsfoots...a little off topic from the last few pages of discussion, but I know it has come up previously. Can anyone comment on blade curvature on their knives?

I ordered a horn handled knife that showed up not as well put together as I would have liked, but I knew previous discussion from this thread about folks culling through knives in person to find good examples. With that in mind, I wouldn't have been disappointed, except for the bends in the knife. The handle was bent in one direction and the blade in the opposite direction, such that it actually had blade rub against one liner in the middle of the blade and the opposite liner at the tip. I didn't care about the blade rub, but the blade curvature means that I would never be able to sharpen it on a flat bench stone.

I absolutely loved the profile of the knife, both in hand and aesthetically, so I took a chance on another one...plain rosewood from a different seller. This knife is better finished, blade centered, but still with some curvature. Just enough so that it wouldn't lay on flat bench stone.

Getting to the point, do folks have examples with straight blades? Or do I just have to accept sharpening on a rod or narrow stone?
Click to expand...

waynorth said:
Archie, I have about ten A.Wright knives, and have never seen your problem!
It's such a pain to send it back, but I probably would anyway!
I'd like to see a pic, but it sounds far from acceptable! I bought a Case that had a problem like you describe, and the factory replaced it!
I asked them about it when I visited the factory. They told me that every once in a while, a blade will curl from an uneven heat treat, and it can occur as the finished knife sits in a box for a week, a month, or a year!!
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about your problem getting a straight Lambsfoot Archie! :eek: :( I'm afraid I can't really add to Charlie's excellent reply. As Charlie says, it IS a pain to have to return a knife, but I would definitely return these knives.

I've only once returned an A.Wright knife, and there wasn't anything wrong with it mechanically. It was about five years ago, and I received one of their badly-named "Senator" double-bolstered Lambsfoot knives as a gift. Bearing in mind it was from their Premier line, I was very disappointed with the rather characterless stag covers the knife had. The knife had been purchased from an online dealer. I didn't return the knife, but wrote to A.Wright & Son to say that I was disappointed with the covers, and couldn't see me carrying the knife much. I received a prompt and very polite letter from John Maleham of Wright's, in which he asked me to return the knife, and offered to make me one I would carry with pride. I did as he asked, and a couple of weeks later, I received a very nice example of their double-bolstered pattern :)

AW Stag Lambsfoot 'Senator' 4-9.jpg
 
This one would have been fine if the pen blade hadn't been covering the main nail-nick. Maybe they have lambsfoots with the nick on the opposite side, and they used the wrong one.
If I had tried the eo notch first, I probably could have saved myself the grinding of the pen. But it's a nice, rugged, and straight knife, for all that.
0X5i3nH.jpg
 
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I think I'll be keeping the rosewood example because the bend really is subtle...I probably wouldn't have noticed, but I was looking for it since the previous knife was so bad. After the explanations above, I also won't be checking any of my existing knives with a straight edge.
 
Archie said:
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I think I'll be keeping the rosewood example because the bend really is subtle...I probably wouldn't have noticed, but I was looking for it since the previous knife was so bad. After the explanations above, I also won't be checking any of my existing knives with a straight edge.
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Cambertree said:
xhI0JHb.jpg
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I wonder if a slight warp in a blade is more noticeable on a straight edged blade like a lambsfoot. When I'm freehand sharpening on a stone, I'll sometimes notice that my edge shows a variation in the height of the bevel, as in your picture, Chin. Maybe the same thing happens sometimes on blades with a belly like a clip or spear, but it's harder to know if it's the blade or my limited sharpening skills. :oops: I know I've bought used knives that seemed fine until I went to sharpen them and realized someone had done some 'light prying'. :rolleyes: Not enough to affect use, but enough to notice against a flat stone.
 
Archie said:
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I think I'll be keeping the rosewood example because the bend really is subtle...I probably wouldn't have noticed, but I was looking for it since the previous knife was so bad. After the explanations above, I also won't be checking any of my existing knives with a straight edge.
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Hmmm...! After reading r8shell's post below, I momentarily thought about checking some of my non straight-edge knives. Not that I've ever noticed any of them aren't straight, but it's perhaps best not to look! :eek: :D :thumbsup:

r8shell said:
I wonder if a slight warp in a blade is more noticeable on a straight edged blade like a lambsfoot. When I'm freehand sharpening on a stone, I'll sometimes notice that my edge shows a variation in the height of the bevel, as in your picture, Chin. Maybe the same thing happens sometimes on blades with a belly like a clip or spear, but it's harder to know if it's the blade or my limited sharpening skills. :oops: I know I've bought used knives that seemed fine until I went to sharpen them and realized someone had done some 'light prying'. :rolleyes: Not enough to affect use, but enough to notice against a flat stone.
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Interesting point r8shell :thumbsup:

I guess I'm lucky, at least when it comes to A.Wright knives, I can go to the factory or to a Sheffield dealer I trust, but there are certainly some dealers, and at least one hardware store, I wouldn't buy knives from, because they're not very fastidious about what they sell :rolleyes:
 
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