Doubt settles over Neville Southall like a brooding cloud on an otherwise sunny afternoon in Liverpool. Before he begins talking animatedly for two hours about sex workers, mental health, skeletons, transgender issues, Theresa May, the agony of Loris Karius, the hounding of Raheem Sterling, why Piers Morgan is “a massive cock”, how to annoy Vladimir Putin, the World Cup and his dream of uniting disenfranchised people, Southall is on the brink of cancelling this interview.
This should be a stress-free day back on Merseyside for the former Everton and Wales footballer, who was arguably the world’s best goalkeeper for a while in the 1980s, as he takes a break from his consuming job at a special needs school in Ebbw Vale. Before he became a celebrated footballer, Southall had been a hod-carrier, a binman and a cleaner. So it is not surprising that, aged 59, he should now work at a pupil referral unit – offering education for children excluded from mainstream schools.
Southall is also an extraordinary presence on Twitter. He has 134,000 followers but, rather than plugging a product or spreading bile, Southall gives up his Twitter page regularly to people who would not normally have such a platform to address the challenges and inequities they face. On any given night Southall’s Twitter feed might contain intelligent explanations from people in the LGBT community, a drugs helpline, a suicide bereavement charity or a sex workers’ collective.
Such generosity is on the verge of scuppering my plans. Southall, hearing of my hope for a detailed interview, is uncomfortable. He would prefer I speak first to some of the groups he is trying to help rather than have attention focused on him.
Southall listens while it is explained that my primary interest is his collaborative work on Twitter. Typically, he says, “OK, then,” as we settle down for one of the most exhaustive and unusual conversations I’ve had under the modest banner of a sports interview.
“I like Twitter because it brings me into contact with people I’d never meet,” Southall says. “I like what makes people tick. So I’m thinking: ‘How mentally strong have these women got to be in the sex industry?’ Even if you like it, at some stage you’re going to get hurt.”
If many people become parochial and dogmatic as they grow older then Southall is on a quest to open himself up and learn. Before he allowed his Twitter page to become an occasional platform for sex workers, Southall admits his preconceptions. “I thought it was just people stuck on street corners. But when you talk to them they become real. If you cut them they bleed. If you tell them a joke they laugh sometimes. They hurt, they cry. Eventually they die the same as you and me. We think of them as statistics or problems but they can come from your family or friends.
“When they first came on my Twitter I wasn’t sure how they’d be taken. But people listened because they are genuinely interested. How often do you get a chance to listen to a sex worker or ask them questions? People engaged positively and sensibly. I’ve got a bit of flak because if I stick up for sex workers some people think I’m supporting the trafficking of women. That’s stupid. It could be your mum, your daughter, your sister, your brother. You don’t know who is doing sex work. I’m trying to get across what they actually do and the barriers they face.”
Southall adopts a similarly inclusive approach when working with people in drug awareness, the LGBT community and, “this week we have a big mental health push, a BAME evening, the police are coming on and people who address knife crime”.
Which subject had the biggest impact? “The LGBT one. I got 30,000 new followers within a week. More importantly, I’m learning new stuff. I started with the LGBT stuff because if the kids at school ask a question I wouldn’t have a clue. But I spoke to a few Trans people about operations. They were really nice and explained stuff I knew nothing about.”
Southall is driven by a grander idea. “It’s all about uniting people. If we could unite all sex workers that would change their lives for ever. The government would have to listen to them. If you unite all LGBT people there are millions. If you do the same with the mental health people and all the charities came together it would be powerful. Do you think Theresa May could ignore them then?”
Does he get followed by many politicians? “Yeah, but I’ve blocked a few. I’ve also blocked people from the Sun.”
What did Southall make of the furore last week over Raheem Sterling and calls for England to drop him because of a still-incomplete tattoo of a gun on his leg – which the Manchester City forward chose to have done in memory of his father who was shot dead when he was two years old? “That was brought up by some prick,” Southall snorts. “Piers Morgan is a prick. What gives him the right to say what can be on your body? If Sterling had tattooed a massive cock on his leg I would say: ‘It reminds me of Piers Morgan.’”
There appears to be a racial undertow in the tabloids’ hounding of Sterling but Southall believes “he gets abused because he’s got lots of cash”. He says: “Anybody successful in this country gets tons of abuse. Harry Kane? Best thing since sliced bread. I bet at the World Cup he gets called a hopeless wanker. The Sun will be following all of them footballers around, hoping they fuck up. Why do we love Frank Bruno? We love people who allow us to say: ‘Oh, he’s a great loser.’ Fuck off. I was glad Kane said: ‘We should talk about winning it’ – because they can.”
Is Southall looking forward to the World Cup? “I am – but it’s in the wrong country. Why would you go to a country where human rights are shit? Where homophobia is horrendous. England should have sent the LGBT team to represent them. Fuck Putin. ‘Here’s our gay team. What are you going to do now?’ Or they should send an all black team, just to annoy Putin.”
Southall shows empathy for a fellow goalkeeper in Karius – who endured a nightmarish Champions League final. “You can’t change it,” he says when asked how he would console Karius. “But you can’t let two mistakes define your career. You either keep swimming or you drown. Of course I empathise with his pain. I know exactly what he’s going through. If I made a mistake, and it was my fault we lost, I wanted to kill somebody. I wanted to physically hurt somebody. Not because they’d done anything wrong but because that’s how I felt.
“I think of the goal I let in from [Gheorghe] Hagi when we played Romania [in a vital 1993 World Cup qualifier which Wales lost]. I think of Norman Whiteside scoring for Man United in the [1985] FA Cup final [which Everton lost 1-0]. But I felt the same after making a mistake against Coventry or Leicester. You’ve still let everybody down. That’s why I liked my position. I was either fucking good or I wasn’t. When I made a mistake I couldn’t blame anybody else. As a keeper, it’s all down to belief. Karius has got to believe he’s a good keeper.”
He has a special interest in England’s World Cup keepers because Jordan Pickford plays for Everton. “Pickford has a fair bit of talent but he could vary his service. Maybe he’s been under instructions to boot it as far as he can. I’d like to see him spend another year working on crosses and stand up more on one-on-ones. But he’s been the best English goalkeeper this season because I don’t think Jack Butland has played enough. I like him because he’s calm but I’d go with Pickford. My only concern is that Pickford’s always been busy because he’s played in teams with shit defences. If he spends 80-odd minutes doing nothing has he the concentration to suddenly make a good save?”
Southall is even more animated when discussing homophobia in football. “I did a thing for the Rainbow Toffees [Everton’s LGBT supporters’ group] last month. It was great and it made me think the FA take the piss with their LGBT relations day. You wear some rainbow laces one day?
“Is there anybody in the commentary team that’s within the LGBT community? No. Have you talked to any players? No. Do you have any LGBT people on the pitch? No. I said to them Rainbow Toffees I’d like Everton to be the first club to get their LGBT people on at half-time and play a five-a-side. Arsenal want to play us. We might get some stick. But I’m hoping Everton fans are sensible and people get used to it.”
Will a gay Premier League footballer come out soon? “Yes, because the press will out him. The other day the Sun said they wouldn’t name that bisexual footballer because they didn’t think it was right. Fuck off. He probably got an injunction. But the first gay footballer will be a multimillionaire. The problem is that the FA are not proactive. I spoke to a gay referee and he said if you use the N-word you get sent off. If a fan says it he’s thrown out of the ground. But you don’t get sent off or chucked out for using a derogatory homophobic term.”
Away from football, Southall’s disdain for the Conservative government is plain. “The day May killed me was when she spoke about ‘JAMs’ – people who are Just About Managing. I used to think she’d be a bit more compassionate but she’s colder than all the others.”
Southall supports Labour, even if they frustrate him, and he says: “Jeremy Corbyn’s done all right. Whether you like him or hate him, he sticks to what he says. When he got made leader, people took the piss because he didn’t wear a suit. Well, he’s not Clark Kent. I thought: ‘If he don’t look like a politician, great. I don’t want a politician.’”
Quick GuideGiven a voice by Neville Southall on Twitter
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Given a voice by Neville Southall on Twitter
Sharon McDonnell, Suicide Bereavement UK
“Neville invited me to take over his Twitter account to motivate more men to complete our survey into the vulnerabilities and needs of those bereaved by suicide. I wasn’t sure his followers would respond because they say ‘men don’t talk’ and suicide bereavement is taboo. I had visions of talking to myself for two hours. I couldn’t have been more wrong. Within a day, 444 people completed the online survey. Thanks to Neville, men bereaved by suicide will now have a voice when we present our study to government.”
SWARM [Sex Worker Advocacy and Resistance Movement]
“The response from Nev’s followers has been incredible. We’re not asking for people to love the sex industry. We’re asking for basic workers’ rights, safety and access to justice. Neville really ‘gets’ us and he stuck his neck out for us when he could have picked an easier, less controversial topic.”
“One of the issues with social media is that you tend to end up being connected to people in your own echo chamber. Taking over Neville’s account has given us the opportunity to speak to people who would never connect with us normally. It’s also really powerful that Neville is not LGB or T. Very few LGBT people have an issue with who they are, the issues are much more often a result of how others react to them. Our partnership with Neville sends a powerful message about what behaviour is acceptable.”
“Neville has helped us raise the Drugsline profile, reaching hundreds of thousands of people and ultimately bringing out conversations around addictions which have helped us offer footsteps to recovery. By using his profile he changes so many stereotypes and the stigma that go with mental health and addiction.”
One of Southall’s trademark Twitter witticisms has centred on bizarre jokes about skeletons which mock the Tories’ austerity cuts. “That started because I was asked to talk at some function for funeral directors in Croydon. I thought: ‘What the fuck do I say?’ I started talking about skeletons and it was a funny night. I said maybe we could replace lampstands with skeletons. It would be nice to have your uncle sat there in the lounge as a coffee table.”
After a few engaging and surreal hours, Southall stays on to talk even when the tape is off. He tells me, movingly, about the two foster children he and his wife look after and he finds new energy when compiling a list of people he wants me to contact.
I feel even more uplifted when, in the following days, quotes pour in from some of those to whom he has offered a Twitter platform. Appreciation of Southall’s generosity and openness illuminate their messages. But Jessa Jones, a sex worker, makes a telling point. “I was surprised that the first thing Neville asked upon learning what I do for a living is: ‘What do sex workers want to make their lives better?’” Jones reveals.
“I can’t speak for all sex workers but, personally, I welcome input from Neville and like-minded people. However, when sex workers are listened to, without a high‑profile figure piquing public interest first, we may finally have made some progress.”
In the face of such fierce eloquence I can imagine Southall nodding and smiling, happy that the final words of this interview are not his own.