Guardians of The Lambsfoot!

Cambertree said:
Thanks Harry.:)

Yes, I'm quite smitten by the depths, and changing qualities of those more subtle Midnight Specials.

When I first received my Guardians knife, I must admit I was secretly hoping for a flashy, spectacular 'Double A Side' example. I might have mentioned before, that being left handed, I like my knives with a pretty pile side, in addition to a decent mark side. At first, I thought the mark side of my knife had most of the character. Now, I like both sides very much, especially after reading GT's comparison of the pile side to alpha particle tracks through a cloud chamber. In fact, I think of my Guardians knife as a kind of Midnight Special on the pile side!

QQxCbhT.jpg


I'm curious what you think of the ergonomics of the larger Lambsfoot, considering the handle of the medium size swayback seems to rest perfectly within the palm of the hand.

I used the swell end, straight handled stag Lambsfoot for a few months while I'd misplaced my ebony swayback; and now I have my ebony Lambsfoot back again, I definitely prefer the swayback handle shape.

It's interesting that hand cutting tools actually predate homo sapiens, and as such, our eyes have very ingrained and definite concepts of what looks right and wrong in a knife. Symmetry and proportion, and surface finish are all intuitively assessed by the human eye, and even a millimetre more or less in different areas can make a knife look different, without knowing exactly why.

When I first came to traditional knives, and the Porch, there were many knife patterns that seemed strange, or ugly to me. The Lambsfoot was one of those knives.

That was primarily a visual judgment. Later, when I acquired examples of many of those 'ugly' knife patterns, I learned to trust the feedback of my hand more than my eye. I find the swayback handle, paired with the tapering width of the straight edged blade combine to make an extremely comfortable knife to deploy and use, especially in conjunction with an easily pinchable blade.

kyPpW7I.jpg


When I came to design my own fixed blade version of the Lambsfoot knife, I looked at my hand, and was reassured by the fact that both open and closed, it has no straight lines, only curves and tapers.

gSuuodt.jpg


fDwJgPG.jpg


Uwo4YoS.jpg


The best design features of this extremely comfortable, fixed blade utility knife are due to the astute observation and ergonomic sense of that working cutler long ago, whose name we may never know, who created the first Lambsfoot knife.

zarRcd5.jpg
Click to expand...
I really like to see your Posts my friend !!!! I have always admired your Fixed Lambfoot because I think you put a lot of thought about the comfortability of the handle into the design . I know that some may not like the Cant of the blade to handle but my old TEW has some Cant to it also and I find that amount is fine .
You had asked about how I like the ergonomics of the longer old TEW . Handle Lengths = Old TEW Sheepfoot = 3.62 inch /// A. Wright Lambfoot = 3.56 inch //// New TEW Lambfoot = 3.56 inch //// Old TEW Lambfoot = 4.25 inch
Handle thickness in the same order are = .62 inch //// .46 inch //// .62 inch //// .44 inch
I like the Length of the Old TEW Lambfoot for where it hits the heel of the palm , but I like the thickness of the handle of the Old TEW Sheepfoot . If the A.Wright Lambfoot had a second blade it would feel better .
A GEC model 47 with a Sheepfoot or Lambfoot with 2 Blades and Jigged Bone covers would make a pretty good Work Knife in my opinion . I also think that Rat Tailed Bolsters are a real plus too for a little more secure grip .
I have not done a comparison yet on the amount of back curve in the handles , but just holding them together , they all look pretty close . It would appear to me the the amount that you have on your Fixed Lambfoot would be better though .

Harry
 
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Old Engineer said:
I really like to see your Posts my friend !!!! I have always admired your Fixed Lambfoot because I think you put a lot of thought about the computability of the handle into the design . I know that some may not like the Cant of the blade to handle but my old TEW has some Cant to it also and I find that amount is fine .
You had asked about how I like the ergonomics of the longer old TEW . Handle Lengths = Old TEW Sheepfoot = 3.62 inch /// A. Wright Lambfoot = 3.56 inch //// New TEW Lambfoot = 3.56 inch //// Old TEW Lambfoot = 4.25 inch
Handle thickness in the same order are = .62 inch //// .46 inch //// .62 inch //// .44 inch
I like the Length of the Old TEW Lambfoot for where it hits the heel of the palm , but I like the thickness of the handle of the Old TEW Sheepfoot . If the A.Wright Lambfoot had a second blade it would feel better .
A GEC model 47 with a Sheepfoot or Lambfoot with 2 Blades and Jigged Bone covers would make a pretty good Work Knife in my opinion . I also think that Rat Tailed Bolsters are a real plus too for a little more secure grip .
I have not done a comparison yet on the amount of back curve in the handles , but just holding them together , they all look pretty close . It would appear to me the the amount that you have on your Fixed Lambfoot would be better though .

Harry
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Just a great post Harry, I love the well-informed opinion this thread seems to garner :) :thumbsup:

William Rodgers Jigged Bone Lambsfoot 1-1S.JPG
 
Jack Black said:
I bet! :D Sounds like a great blade, how about taking a comparison pic next to your Lambsfoot? :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
So here's that knife that I picked up on my latest excursion to backwoods Taiwan. The Truku (an aboriginal tribe of Taiwan) village where the knifemaker lives and works is pretty standard rural Taiwan. Ancient trees lining rice paddies as far as you can see to the north, east and south. To the west is a range of green mountains covered in mist. The craftsman has made these blades for decades, just like his father and his father. The metal is carbon steel that he salvages from old cars at nearby junkyards. These are poor folks and they use what that can get their hands on.
GPcv0Gn.jpg

The shop is fascinating, and filled with variations of the same blade. On the walls are warriors' blades, which the knifemaker is particularly proud of, mainly because the oldest and most revered of the knives are decorated with hair (supposedly and very likely) from the imperial Japanese solders they dispatched. The Truku were still taking heads until around the end of WWII. I opted for a working, as opposed to decorative, knife. It is stupid sharp and you see people in the villages and mountains carrying them.
u7fwpKF.jpg

It is common to see these knives at shops around the country, but many are mass produced. He is one of the, if not the, last independent makers. The sheath, as you can see, is open on one side. The local people do this in a bid to reduce corrosion. Anyway, there you go. An unlikely companion for my lambsfoot, which the knifemaker had never seen the likes of before.
o253ado.jpg
 
SomeGuyInTaipei said:
So here's that knife that I picked up on my latest excursion to backwoods Taiwan. The Truku (an aboriginal tribe of Taiwan) village where the knifemaker lives and works is pretty standard rural Taiwan. Ancient trees lining rice paddies as far as you can see to the north, east and south. To the west is a range of green mountains covered in mist. The craftsman has made these blades for decades, just like his father and his father. The metal is carbon steel that he salvages from old cars at nearby junkyards. These are poor folks and they use what that can get their hands on.
GPcv0Gn.jpg

The shop is fascinating, and filled with variations of the same blade. On the walls are warriors' blades, which the knifemaker is particularly proud of, mainly because the oldest and most revered of the knives are decorated with hair (supposedly and very likely) from the imperial Japanese solders they dispatched. The Truku were still taking heads until around the end of WWII. I opted for a working, as opposed to decorative, knife. It is stupid sharp and you see people in the villages and mountains carrying them.
u7fwpKF.jpg

It is common to see these knives at shops around the country, but many are mass produced. He is one of the, if not the, last independent makers. The sheath, as you can see, is open on one side. The local people do this in a bid to reduce corrosion. Anyway, there you go. An unlikely companion for my lambsfoot, which the knifemaker had never seen the likes of before.
o253ado.jpg
Click to expand...

A most interesting knife, I'm glad you were able to pick one up, thanks for telling us about it, and for including your Lambsfoot :thumbsup:
 
Interesting story and knife. It looks like a great slasher/chopper. Do the metal bands on the open side wrap around the back?
 
r8shell said:
Wow, you have such brightly colored birds there, and friendly too. Maybe too friendly, watch it doesn't fly off with your knife! :eek: :p
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Yes, the morning and evening bird chorus here can be quite captivating to just sit and enjoy listening to, r8shell.:):thumbsup:

Old Engineer said:
I really like to see your Posts my friend !!!! I have always admired your Fixed Lambfoot because I think you put a lot of thought about the comfortability of the handle into the design . I know that some may not like the Cant of the blade to handle but my old TEW has some Cant to it also and I find that amount is fine .
You had asked about how I like the ergonomics of the longer old TEW . Handle Lengths = Old TEW Sheepfoot = 3.62 inch /// A. Wright Lambfoot = 3.56 inch //// New TEW Lambfoot = 3.56 inch //// Old TEW Lambfoot = 4.25 inch
Handle thickness in the same order are = .62 inch //// .46 inch //// .62 inch //// .44 inch
I like the Length of the Old TEW Lambfoot for where it hits the heel of the palm , but I like the thickness of the handle of the Old TEW Sheepfoot . If the A.Wright Lambfoot had a second blade it would feel better .
A GEC model 47 with a Sheepfoot or Lambfoot with 2 Blades and Jigged Bone covers would make a pretty good Work Knife in my opinion . I also think that Rat Tailed Bolsters are a real plus too for a little more secure grip .
I have not done a comparison yet on the amount of back curve in the handles , but just holding them together , they all look pretty close . It would appear to me the the amount that you have on your Fixed Lambfoot would be better though .

Harry
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for the compliment Harry, and for your thoughts on the larger size Lambsfoot in comparison to the 'regular', medium size version. I appreciate your perceptive comments on blade cant too, and wouldn't mind discussing the subject a little more.

If I could, I'd also like to return to some earlier discussion points touched on by Greg @WhittlinAway, and Barrett @btb01 as well, regarding the design of the Lambsfoot knife, in relation to the blade swedge and fluted bolster.

Part of my earliest reaction to the Lambsfoot pattern as 'ugly' was not only based purely on a visual response seeing the knife, without actually having used it, but also a lack of understanding of many of the nuances of blade design and ergonomics.

Now, I wouldn't say I know a great deal more now, but having been lucky enough to have handled and used a few different knives, as well as having been able to question and learn from some very knowledgable people on my travels, in books and on this forum, there's some interesting design features on the Lambsfoot pattern. To me the most graceful and enduring design features of any knife pattern are those which not only work well for their intended purpose, but carry multiple purposes as well.

Working cutlers over the years, have worked out ways to improve nearly every component of the traditional pocket knife. In many cases, this 'fancy' treatment is to improve the look and finish of a knife - for example filework, and engraving, mosaic pins, and shield inletting. Yes these things could be said to have some practical purpose, but I would maintain, they are primarily decorative.

Then, there are some features that also have a definite effect on the performance of a tool.

Let's look at blade swedging first. In a traditional pocket knife, a swedge serves three purposes. Firstly, it is aesthetically appealing. It also allows multiple blades to pass by each other, by reducing spine width; and lastly this spine reduction also improves the cutting ability of a blade when passing through thick, or binding material, like cardboard, fruit and vegetables or meat. If I have a knife like a Schrade Old Timer, with a right angled spine with no swedging, one of the 'mods' I do on it, is to chamfer, or swedge all the blades. I first really noticed this in a job where I had to cut a lot of thick cardboard every day: the blades I used with a full thickness spine had more of a 'binding' feel, and would often want to 'steer' off course, in the cut. The swedged blades would glide through the material more easily, and be more responsive to where I wanted to guide them.

Next the fluted bolster. As a few Guardians have already noted, this not only looks great, but it provides an excellent 'indexing detent' to rest your fingers, or fingertips in, in different holds. Learning from using the Unity Lambsfoot, which was a model for the Guardians bolster, I liked the functionality of this feature enough, that I copied the idea in the Lambshank, which doesn't even have any bolsters!

Ak04jYi.jpg


Now let's look at forward cant, or the dreaded 'blade droop'! I agree that excessive cant can have a barbarous look to the eye, and again, that kinked discontinuous flow from the line of the handle to the spine of the blade is one of the things that I would instantly dislike in a knife. Some Ettricks (and a few Lambsfoots) have this issue, as we've discussed before in this thread.

However, over time, I realised that there is often a purpose to having the cutting edge of the blade tilted, or canted on a slight forward angle.

A simple test to illustrate this is to take a knife and place it against the edge of some paper, with the cutting edge at an exact right angle, and do a draw cut (or a push cut if it's freshly sharpened). Then try the same cut again with the cutting edge held at a slight angle. It engages and bites the edge of the material much better, which is why well designed serrations, and hawkbill blades cut so well - however you present the blade to the cut, it is always on an angle.

I took a few pics of this design feature in some different traditional knives from England, Germany and the USA, for comparison purposes. I tried to line up the bottom of the handle with the straight lines on some ruled notepaper, to demonstrate how many well designed knives have a forward canted cutting edge, when you hold them naturally in the hand. (Obviously some handles are curved or serpentine, so they don't line up exactly to a straight line on the underside of the handle, but in those cases I tried to sit them on the prevailing line of how they would sit in someones hand.)

Z7bsWac.jpg


Note that they all have a pronounced forward cant, or tilt to the cutting edge, in the way they would be normally be held. If you were to lightly place any of these blades on some material and start a draw cut, you would find that the natural cant, would serve to engage and bite into the material very easily. (Also the straight, swell end handle clearly facilitates this forward cant of the blade in hand, but that's something for another discussion, elsewhere.)

Just so you don't think I'm being too selective in my examples, let's look at two all time classic 20th century traditional knife patterns. In fact one of them is the most popular pocket knife of all time, the SAK Classic, and the Schrade 8OT must be one of the most popular American patterns.

sYi6hr5.jpg


Yep, some serious blade cant, by design, on both of these very tried and tested patterns.

Let's compare some knives with very straight cutting edges, in a continuous line with the underside of the handle.

Wm77ngc.jpg


Even the top two knives have an ever so slight forward cant to the cutting edge, which is hardly noticeable. If I'm using any of these knives for a good while, the way I have to tilt my hand slightly forward at the wrist to engage the material being cut, can end up being fatiguing.

OK, if we go back to Lambsfoot knives, it's actually the handle design that tilts the cutting edge slightly forward, and drops the tip down slightly to facilitate easy, ergonomic cutting.

FWQC9aJ.jpg


So I guess, I'm saying all this, because it's a constant wonder to me how much thought, wisdom and experience has gone into many traditional knife pattern designs, including the Lambsfoot. I recognise that different and diverse things motivate collectors in this hobby of ours, but I like to think of these knives as being part of a long sweep of historical cutting tool design, going all the way back through the Iron and Bronze age, and commencing with the first flaked and ground stone tools.

Hopefully I haven't wandered too far off topic...;):)
 
Wurrwulf said:
Nothing like horn at dusk!

IMG_20171106_163738_2.jpg
Click to expand...

Shawn, that is just a beautiful photo. You captured that magic-hour light perfectly.:thumbsup::cool::)

Jack Black said:
About to hit the hay here, but setting this one aside for tomorrow :) :thumbsup:

View attachment 793326
Click to expand...

Jack, those sambar Lambsfoot knives you and Ron scored are superb examples.:thumbsup::cool::)

SomeGuyInTaipei said:
So here's that knife that I picked up on my latest excursion to backwoods Taiwan. The Truku (an aboriginal tribe of Taiwan) village where the knifemaker lives and works is pretty standard rural Taiwan. Ancient trees lining rice paddies as far as you can see to the north, east and south. To the west is a range of green mountains covered in mist. The craftsman has made these blades for decades, just like his father and his father. The metal is carbon steel that he salvages from old cars at nearby junkyards. These are poor folks and they use what that can get their hands on.
GPcv0Gn.jpg

The shop is fascinating, and filled with variations of the same blade. On the walls are warriors' blades, which the knifemaker is particularly proud of, mainly because the oldest and most revered of the knives are decorated with hair (supposedly and very likely) from the imperial Japanese solders they dispatched. The Truku were still taking heads until around the end of WWII. I opted for a working, as opposed to decorative, knife. It is stupid sharp and you see people in the villages and mountains carrying them.
u7fwpKF.jpg

It is common to see these knives at shops around the country, but many are mass produced. He is one of the, if not the, last independent makers. The sheath, as you can see, is open on one side. The local people do this in a bid to reduce corrosion. Anyway, there you go. An unlikely companion for my lambsfoot, which the knifemaker had never seen the likes of before.
o253ado.jpg
Click to expand...

Great account, my friend, and very well written. Thanks for sharing it.:cool::):thumbsup:
 
Cambertree said:
Yes, the morning and evening bird chorus here can be quite captivating to just sit and enjoy listening to, r8shell.:):thumbsup:



Thanks very much for the compliment Harry, and for your thoughts on the larger size Lambsfoot in comparison to the 'regular', medium size version. I appreciate your perceptive comments on blade cant too, and wouldn't mind discussing the subject a little more.

If I could, I'd also like to return to some earlier discussion points touched on by Greg @WhittlinAway, and Barrett @btb01 as well, regarding the design of the Lambsfoot knife, in relation to the blade swedge and fluted bolster.

Part of my earliest reaction to the Lambsfoot pattern as 'ugly' was not only based purely on a visual response seeing the knife, without actually having used it, but also a lack of understanding of many of the nuances of blade design and ergonomics.

Now, I wouldn't say I know a great deal more now, but having been lucky enough to have handled and used a few different knives, as well as having been able to question and learn from some very knowledgable people on my travels, in books and on this forum, there's some interesting design features on the Lambsfoot pattern. To me the most graceful and enduring design features of any knife pattern are those which not only work well for their intended purpose, but carry multiple purposes as well.

Working cutlers over the years, have worked out ways to improve nearly every component of the traditional pocket knife. In many cases, this 'fancy' treatment is to improve the look and finish of a knife - for example filework, and engraving, mosaic pins, and shield inletting. Yes these things could be said to have some practical purpose, but I would maintain, they are primarily decorative.

Then, there are some features that also have a definite effect on the performance of a tool.

Let's look at blade swedging first. In a traditional pocket knife, a swedge serves three purposes. Firstly, it is aesthetically appealing. It also allows multiple blades to pass by each other, by reducing spine width; and lastly this spine reduction also improves the cutting ability of a blade when passing through thick, or binding material, like cardboard, fruit and vegetables or meat. If I have a knife like a Schrade Old Timer, with a right angled spine with no swedging, one of the 'mods' I do on it, is to chamfer, or swedge all the blades. I first really noticed this in a job where I had to cut a lot of thick cardboard every day: the blades I used with a full thickness spine had more of a 'binding' feel, and would often want to 'steer' off course, in the cut. The swedged blades would glide through the material more easily, and be more responsive to where I wanted to guide them.

Next the fluted bolster. As a few Guardians have already noted, this not only looks great, but it provides an excellent 'indexing detent' to rest your fingers, or fingertips in, in different holds. Learning from using the Unity Lambsfoot, which was a model for the Guardians bolster, I liked the functionality of this feature enough, that I copied the idea in the Lambshank, which doesn't even have any bolsters!

Ak04jYi.jpg


Now let's look at forward cant, or the dreaded 'blade droop'! I agree that excessive cant can have a barbarous look to the eye, and again, that kinked discontinuous flow from the line of the handle to the spine of the blade is one of the things that I would instantly dislike in a knife. Some Ettricks (and a few Lambsfoots) have this issue, as we've discussed before in this thread.

However, over time, I realised that there is often a purpose to having the cutting edge of the blade tilted, or canted on a slight forward angle.

A simple test to illustrate this is to take a knife and place it against the edge of some paper, with the cutting edge at an exact right angle, and do a draw cut (or a push cut if it's freshly sharpened). Then try the same cut again with the cutting edge held at a slight angle. It engages and bites the edge of the material much better, which is why well designed serrations, and hawkbill blades cut so well - however you present the blade to the cut, it is always on an angle.

I took a few pics of this design feature in some different traditional knives from England, Germany and the USA, for comparison purposes. I tried to line up the bottom of the handle with the straight lines on some ruled notepaper, to demonstrate how many well designed knives have a forward canted cutting edge, when you hold them naturally in the hand. (Obviously some handles are curved or serpentine, so they don't line up exactly to a straight line on the underside of the handle, but in those cases I tried to sit them on the prevailing line of how they would sit in someones hand.)

Z7bsWac.jpg


Note that they all have a pronounced forward cant, or tilt to the cutting edge, in the way they would be normally be held. If you were to lightly place any of these blades on some material and start a draw cut, you would find that the natural cant, would serve to engage and bite into the material very easily. (Also the straight, swell end handle clearly facilitates this forward cant of the blade in hand, but that's something for another discussion, elsewhere.)

Just so you don't think I'm being too selective in my examples, let's look at two all time classic 20th century traditional knife patterns. In fact one of them is the most popular pocket knife of all time, the SAK Classic, and the Schrade 8OT must be one of the most popular American patterns.

sYi6hr5.jpg


Yep, some serious blade cant, by design, on both of these very tried and tested patterns.

Let's compare some knives with very straight cutting edges, in a continuous line with the underside of the handle.

Wm77ngc.jpg


Even the top two knives have an ever so slight forward cant to the cutting edge, which is hardly noticeable. If I'm using any of these knives for a good while, the way I have to tilt my hand slightly forward at the wrist to engage the material being cut, can end up being fatiguing.

OK, if we go back to Lambsfoot knives, it's actually the handle design that tilts the cutting edge slightly forward, and drops the tip down slightly to facilitate easy, ergonomic cutting.

FWQC9aJ.jpg


So I guess, I'm saying all this, because it's a constant wonder to me how much thought, wisdom and experience has gone into many traditional knife pattern designs, including the Lambsfoot. I recognise that different and diverse things motivate collectors in this hobby of ours, but I like to think of these knives as being part of a long sweep of historical cutting tool design, going all the way back through the Iron and Bronze age, and commencing with the first flaked and ground stone tools.

Hopefully I haven't wandered too far off topic...;):)
Click to expand...

A really excellent post my friend, a pleasure to read :thumbsup: I was also minded of discussions I've read on the reasons for the devastating cutting/shearing power of the Kukri - and the French guillotine! :eek: ;) :thumbsup:

Cambertree said:
Jack, those sambar Lambsfoot knives you and Ron scored are superb examples.:thumbsup::cool::)
Click to expand...

Thanks my friend, just a lucky break really :) Wright's had got hold of a very small amount of Sambar, so I grabbed what I could! :D :) Here's the pile side of that one :thumbsup:

A.Wright Small Swayback Sambar Lambsfoot 3-5.JPG
 
Jack Black said:
... Good to see the pile side of your Guardians Lambsfoot again :) Here's mine :thumbsup:

View attachment 791638
Click to expand...
lambertiana said:
As long as we're on the subject of pile sides, here is what is residing in my pocket right now.
fWAw5xt.jpg
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Jack & lambertiana, those are quite mesmerizing pile sides! :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:

mrknife said:
a gift from Randy (rredden)!
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Congrats, Jack! :cool: Randy has the Midas touch! ;):thumbsup::thumbsup:

scrteened porch said:
I ran out of half-and-half. Extra heavy stirring duty for old Toffee-wings.
xk2bxKr.jpg
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"Old Toffee-wings" has a nice ring to it! :thumbsup::cool:

Jack Black said:
...
I had breakfast out this morning :)

View attachment 791921
Click to expand...
Jack, I spent far too long trying to identify the contents of your breakfast plate. :rolleyes: Subsequent posts confirmed or denied some of my conjectures. I recognized buttered toast immediately! :p At 12 o'clock high I see a small tomato, with mushrooms to the left of that. So far, so good? It took me a while, but I guessed the tin cup held beans (confirmed in a later post). I, like Chin, mistakenly thought that there was a Brussels sprout at about 1 o'clock (although that struck me as an odd feature of a breakfast); as usual, the truth is avacado. I say sausages at 7-8 o'clock? But I'm quite clueless about the "patty" at 6 o'clock; I'll guess some potato concoction?

Jack Black said:
My Guardians Lambsfoot on Leeds Bridge this morning :)

View attachment 791939

It was on this bridge, in 1888, that Louis Le Price shot what was long thought to be the world's very first motion film (a slightly earlier film Le Prince also shot in Leeds has since been discovered).

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Fascinating historical trivia!! :eek::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Half/Stop said:
I’m giving this A. Wright Sambar some pocket time today. :D Hope y’all have a great weekend!:thumbsup:
37029672413_36330816d7_b_d.jpg
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Jack Black said:
About to hit the hay here, but setting this one aside for tomorrow :) :thumbsup:

View attachment 793326
Click to expand...
Ron & Jack, that is some toasty lamb stag you have!! :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Cambertree said:
...Cheers GT: Jack somehow forgot to mention that I've been the recipient of his exceedingly generous nature on more than one occasion!:D;)

I've really been enjoying seeing all the Guardians Lambsfoot knives popping up that have been gifted by the two Jacks. I always like reading your inimitable posts and observations in the EDC thread and other threads you frequent, so it's been a real treat to be able to look forward to your posts here as well, my friend. Your 'Eye of the Tiger' Lambsfoot is looking great, and I hadn't forgotten about your pledge to reveal your nom de Lambsfoots, after keeping us in suspense for a suitable amount of time! It's true that if any knives are deserving of a name, it's these beauties. Personally, I've been toying with a name inspired by Jer's ( screened porch screened porch ) musings on a good, classic Norse name, for the blade now seemingly known as 'Toffee wings'! Not Brain Biter, or Fótbítr (Leg-biter), Sköfnung, Graysteel, Warflame, Quern-biter, Adder, Dragvandil, Skyrmir or other famous names of blades in the Norse Sagas, though!:D;):p
...
Here's a couple of pics of the countryside near me, I took yesterday.:)

BGMy01F.jpg

...
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Thanks for your kind words about my posts, knives, and knife names, Chin; I look forward to hearing what Norse name you've dreamed up! ;):thumbsup::thumbsup: I certainly admire your ebony lambsfoot (is that the prodigal that returned?), and I'm a sucker for lambsfoot pics with actual lambs/sheep in the background!! :cool::cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Cambertree said:
... At first, I thought the mark side of my knife had most of the character. Now, I like both sides very much, especially after reading GT's comparison of the pile side to alpha particle tracks through a cloud chamber. In fact, I think of my Guardians knife as a kind of Midnight Special on the pile side!
...
When I first came to traditional knives, and the Porch, there were many knife patterns that seemed strange, or ugly to me. The Lambsfoot was one of those knives.

That was primarily a visual judgment. Later, when I acquired examples of many of those 'ugly' knife patterns, I learned to trust the feedback of my hand more than my eye. I find the swayback handle, paired with the tapering width of the straight edged blade combine to make an extremely comfortable knife to deploy and use, especially in conjunction with an easily pinchable blade.
...
Click to expand...
Chin, I'm glad I could be of assistance in your developing perspectives on your Guardian Lambsfoot. ;):cool: I also enjoyed your ruminations on visual vs functional beauty, so to speak. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

gonebad395 said:
aiog4Y7.jpg
Out and about today my 6 yr olds daughters first basketball game.
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That wood lambsfoot is very classy, Keith, and Dylan's sheath certainly enriches the "Guardians of the Lambsfoot Experience"! :cool::thumbsup::cool:

Cambertree said:
...
I was pleased to find a bed of good sized freshwater mussels just under the tree, near the right hand side of the bank.

QkDXMUm.jpg


...
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Very impressive Clamsfoot knife you have there, Chin! :D:rolleyes:

Wurrwulf said:
Nothing like horn at dusk!

IMG_20171106_163738_2.jpg
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Splendid shot, Shawn!! :cool::cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Cambertree said:
...
If I could, I'd also like to return to some earlier discussion points touched on by Greg @WhittlinAway, and Barrett @btb01 as well, regarding the design of the Lambsfoot knife, in relation to the blade swedge and fluted bolster.
...
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Absolutely fascinating post, Chin; helpful pics and intriguing speculations! :thumbsup::thumbsup::cool::cool:

I need to get an updated photo of my Guardians sheath. It's quite a bit darker, and quite a bit more supple, after I treated it with neatsfoot oil. (I hope that isn't a mistake. :eek:)
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- GT
 
5K Qs said:
I need to get an updated photo of my Guardians sheath. It's quite a bit darker, and quite a bit more supple, after I treated it with neatsfoot oil. (I hope that isn't a mistake. :eek:)
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Not at all, GT! I use neatsfoot oil on all of my leather stuff, including regular application on my boots. The Guardians Slips received a couple of coats of the stuff before being shipped out. But being that it is vegetable tanned leather, with the drying effects that dyes have on it, it is certainly prudent to keep it well treated with oil. Regular use and the occasional oiling will keep that slip in good condition for a lifetime.
 
5K Qs said:
Jack, I spent far too long trying to identify the contents of your breakfast plate. :rolleyes: Subsequent posts confirmed or denied some of my conjectures. I recognized buttered toast immediately! :p At 12 o'clock high I see a small tomato, with mushrooms to the left of that. So far, so good? It took me a while, but I guessed the tin cup held beans (confirmed in a later post). I, like Chin, mistakenly thought that there was a Brussels sprout at about 1 o'clock (although that struck me as an odd feature of a breakfast); as usual, the truth is avacado. I say sausages at 7-8 o'clock? But I'm quite clueless about the "patty" at 6 o'clock; I'll guess some potato concoction?


Fascinating historical trivia!! :eek::thumbsup::thumbsup:



Ron & Jack, that is some toasty lamb stag you have!! :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Thanks for your kind words about my posts, knives, and knife names, Chin; I look forward to hearing what Norse name you've dreamed up! ;):thumbsup::thumbsup: I certainly admire your ebony lambsfoot (is that the prodigal that returned?), and I'm a sucker for lambsfoot pics with actual lambs/sheep in the background!! :cool::cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Chin, I'm glad I could be of assistance in your developing perspectives on your Guardian Lambsfoot. ;):cool: I also enjoyed your ruminations on visual vs functional beauty, so to speak. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


That wood lambsfoot is very classy, Keith, and Dylan's sheath certainly enriches the "Guardians of the Lambsfoot Experience"! :cool::thumbsup::cool:


Very impressive Clamsfoot knife you have there, Chin! :D:rolleyes:


Splendid shot, Shawn!! :cool::cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Absolutely fascinating post, Chin; helpful pics and intriguing speculations! :thumbsup::thumbsup::cool::cool:

I need to get an updated photo of my Guardians sheath. It's quite a bit darker, and quite a bit more supple, after I treated it with neatsfoot oil. (I hope that isn't a mistake. :eek:)
8MPTyzm.jpg


- GT
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LOL! :D It wasn't quite a traditional English breakfast my friend :D You guessed right enough though, the potato cake thing was a rosti :thumbsup: I'm not sure why they've started putting baked beans in pots here, I had another breakfast today where they did the same :confused: Great-looking pic there my friend, I can't wait to get my Guardians pocket-slip :) :thumbsup:

Pàdruig said:
Not at all, GT! I use neatsfoot oil on all of my leather stuff, including regular application on my boots. The Guardians Slips received a couple of coats of the stuff before being shipped out. But being that it is vegetable tanned leather, with the drying effects that dyes have on it, it is certainly prudent to keep it well treated with oil. Regular use and the occasional oiling will keep that slip in good condition for a lifetime.
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Thanks for the tip Dylan, I've used neatsfoot oil in the past :thumbsup:

Just throwing in a gratuitous Lambsfoot pic ;)

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Cambertree said:
If I could, I'd also like to return to some earlier discussion points touched on by Greg @WhittlinAway, and Barrett @btb01 as well, regarding the design of the Lambsfoot knife, in relation to the blade swedge and fluted bolster.

Part of my earliest reaction to the Lambsfoot pattern as 'ugly' was not only based purely on a visual response seeing the knife, without actually having used it, but also a lack of understanding of many of the nuances of blade design and ergonomics.

Now, I wouldn't say I know a great deal more now, but having been lucky enough to have handled and used a few different knives, as well as having been able to question and learn from some very knowledgable people on my travels, in books and on this forum, there's some interesting design features on the Lambsfoot pattern. To me the most graceful and enduring design features of any knife pattern are those which not only work well for their intended purpose, but carry multiple purposes as well.

Working cutlers over the years, have worked out ways to improve nearly every component of the traditional pocket knife. In many cases, this 'fancy' treatment is to improve the look and finish of a knife - for example filework, and engraving, mosaic pins, and shield inletting. Yes these things could be said to have some practical purpose, but I would maintain, they are primarily decorative.

Then, there are some features that also have a definite effect on the performance of a tool.

Let's look at blade swedging first. In a traditional pocket knife, a swedge serves three purposes. Firstly, it is aesthetically appealing. It also allows multiple blades to pass by each other, by reducing spine width; and lastly this spine reduction also improves the cutting ability of a blade when passing through thick, or binding material, like cardboard, fruit and vegetables or meat. If I have a knife like a Schrade Old Timer, with a right angled spine with no swedging, one of the 'mods' I do on it, is to chamfer, or swedge all the blades. I first really noticed this in a job where I had to cut a lot of thick cardboard every day: the blades I used with a full thickness spine had more of a 'binding' feel, and would often want to 'steer' off course, in the cut. The swedged blades would glide through the material more easily, and be more responsive to where I wanted to guide them.

Next the fluted bolster. As a few Guardians have already noted, this not only looks great, but it provides an excellent 'indexing detent' to rest your fingers, or fingertips in, in different holds. Learning from using the Unity Lambsfoot, which was a model for the Guardians bolster, I liked the functionality of this feature enough, that I copied the idea in the Lambshank, which doesn't even have any bolsters!

Ak04jYi.jpg


Now let's look at forward cant, or the dreaded 'blade droop'! I agree that excessive cant can have a barbarous look to the eye, and again, that kinked discontinuous flow from the line of the handle to the spine of the blade is one of the things that I would instantly dislike in a knife. Some Ettricks (and a few Lambsfoots) have this issue, as we've discussed before in this thread.

However, over time, I realised that there is often a purpose to having the cutting edge of the blade tilted, or canted on a slight forward angle.

A simple test to illustrate this is to take a knife and place it against the edge of some paper, with the cutting edge at an exact right angle, and do a draw cut (or a push cut if it's freshly sharpened). Then try the same cut again with the cutting edge held at a slight angle. It engages and bites the edge of the material much better, which is why well designed serrations, and hawkbill blades cut so well - however you present the blade to the cut, it is always on an angle.

I took a few pics of this design feature in some different traditional knives from England, Germany and the USA, for comparison purposes. I tried to line up the bottom of the handle with the straight lines on some ruled notepaper, to demonstrate how many well designed knives have a forward canted cutting edge, when you hold them naturally in the hand. (Obviously some handles are curved or serpentine, so they don't line up exactly to a straight line on the underside of the handle, but in those cases I tried to sit them on the prevailing line of how they would sit in someones hand.)

Z7bsWac.jpg


Note that they all have a pronounced forward cant, or tilt to the cutting edge, in the way they would be normally be held. If you were to lightly place any of these blades on some material and start a draw cut, you would find that the natural cant, would serve to engage and bite into the material very easily. (Also the straight, swell end handle clearly facilitates this forward cant of the blade in hand, but that's something for another discussion, elsewhere.)

Just so you don't think I'm being too selective in my examples, let's look at two all time classic 20th century traditional knife patterns. In fact one of them is the most popular pocket knife of all time, the SAK Classic, and the Schrade 8OT must be one of the most popular American patterns.

sYi6hr5.jpg


Yep, some serious blade cant, by design, on both of these very tried and tested patterns.

Let's compare some knives with very straight cutting edges, in a continuous line with the underside of the handle.

Wm77ngc.jpg


Even the top two knives have an ever so slight forward cant to the cutting edge, which is hardly noticeable. If I'm using any of these knives for a good while, the way I have to tilt my hand slightly forward at the wrist to engage the material being cut, can end up being fatiguing.

OK, if we go back to Lambsfoot knives, it's actually the handle design that tilts the cutting edge slightly forward, and drops the tip down slightly to facilitate easy, ergonomic cutting.

FWQC9aJ.jpg


So I guess, I'm saying all this, because it's a constant wonder to me how much thought, wisdom and experience has gone into many traditional knife pattern designs, including the Lambsfoot. I recognise that different and diverse things motivate collectors in this hobby of ours, but I like to think of these knives as being part of a long sweep of historical cutting tool design, going all the way back through the Iron and Bronze age, and commencing with the first flaked and ground stone tools.

Hopefully I haven't wandered too far off topic...;):)
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Thank you for the illustrative pictures and ruminations re: canted blades. I was inspired to examine and photograph a comparison of my new guardian lambfoot with an Ettrick I received from @WhittlinAway last spring. If I'm being honest, I think the Ettrick would be more aesthetically pleasing if it were not canted, with the graceful s-curve this pattern is known for. Yet, in use both blades are very effective and the Ettrick is especially well suited to draw cuts. (whittlinaway did an excellent job thinning out the primary grind, and this is my favorite knife for craft projects involving cutting leather. Much easier on the wrist and so much classier than an x-acto) :D

Lambfoot and Ettrick .jpg
 
r8shell said:
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It looks like the etch on your Guardians Lambsfoot is almost completely gone now r8shell :( There have been plenty of etches I have been glad to see the back of in the past, but I had hoped that one would be a bit more resilient. I sure wish we could have got them stamped, but I think it would have almost doubled the cost of the knife on a short run like that. Of course, we could have got them lazer-etched, but it's not quite the same is it? :thumbsup:

AWSFOM 1-4S.JPG
 
Jack Black said:
It looks like the etch on your Guardians Lambsfoot is almost completely gone now r8shell :( There have been plenty of etches I have been glad to see the back of in the past, but I had hoped that one would be a bit more resilient. I sure wish we could have got them stamped, but I think it would have almost doubled the cost of the knife on a short run like that. Of course, we could have got them lazer-etched, but it's not quite the same is it? :thumbsup:
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It's hard to catch with the cell phone camera, but if I turn the blade at the right angle to catch the light, I can still see it. :):thumbsup:

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Nice to hear other people are still using neat's-foot oil on leather. Some people claim it dissolves leather, though the can says it preserves leather. I've never found it to dissolve leather.
 
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