Guardians of The Lambsfoot!

I ain't a wood specialist, but there are so many kinds of ebony, I could not tell. Maccassar, Mozambique, Gabon, and all kind that don't look a bit like what we think is ebony... Some are quite green, other dark black (what history learned us to be ebony) the problem is that we have the same differences in rosewood...
So keep on believing (as I do) that this is just another kind of ebony. And enjoy a fine knife! :):):)

ps : when you're fed up with her, well, You know what to do...:p

Thank you, @Jolipapa, for the insight. I do recognize that there are different types of ebony and that very well could be the case here. The only thing that seems to strike me as odd is that every single example of an Ebony Lambsfoot that has been posted here or elsewhere on the forums looks dramatically different than the one that i have in my possession.

But you are right, of course, I have little to complain about as it is indeed a fine knife.

I know there are many different types of ebony. Off-hand, Charlie @waynorth, scruffuk scruffuk , @Cambertree, and L lambertiana are all posters who have a good knowledge of wood types I think, along with many more :thumbsup:

This photo might be more helpful in showing the grain on my knife :thumbsup:

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You might find this site informative Dylan - http://www.wood-database.com/

Thank you, Jack, for that info. I am perusing that website right now. I will certainly look forward to others who might chime in as well.

I have this photo that might be helpful in the comparison between A. Wright Ebony and Rosewood. The upper knife in the photo is Rosewood. I purchased it from the large auction site from a dealer that I obviously knew nothing about. The Ebony example is a knife that I was fortunate to win in a Jack Black GAW. I had the Ebony before I ordered the Rosewood. As I recall Jack had hand picked this Ebony from one of his regular sources. Jack, please correct me on that if it is not accurate. There is an obvious difference in the grains and colors of this two examples. Again this is just to help in the comparison and conversation because I am definitely not an authority on wood.
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Thank you, Ron, for that comparison pic. That is an excellent demonstration of the rather dramatic differences in the two woods. I am going through the website that Jack provided and I am seeing a trend with the different kinds of ebony, "They have a high natural luster with little to no visible grain", this is certainly not the case with mine. It has a rather dull appearance, absent of any "luster", and very visible grain. It is certainly interesting to speculate....
 
Thank you, @Jolipapa, for the insight. I do recognize that there are different types of ebony and that very well could be the case here. The only thing that seems to strike me as odd is that every single example of an Ebony Lambsfoot that has been posted here or elsewhere on the forums looks dramatically different than the one that i have in my possession.

But you are right, of course, I have little to complain about as it is indeed a fine knife.





Thank you, Jack, for that info. I am perusing that website right now. I will certainly look forward to others who might chime in as well.



Thank you, Ron, for that comparison pic. That is an excellent demonstration of the rather dramatic differences in the two woods. I am going through the website that Jack provided and I am seeing a trend with the different kinds of ebony, "They have a high natural luster with little to no visible grain", this is certainly not the case with mine. It has a rather dull appearance, absent of any "luster", and very visible grain. It is certainly interesting to speculate....

I think there've been a few in lighter ebony Dylan, some even have stripes of brown and black :thumbsup:

This one, belonging to @pertinux is lighter on the pile side.

 
Yes it's interesting about the variations in woods, that's their allure. But if your father is a wood turner then he knows how wood behaves when you cut it, the density and the smell of it, the weight/hardness and how the grain shows itself.

Knife companies and others ( the public especially) may be less than precise in their description of woods. We can all say, distinguish Walnut from Oak but as JP and others have pointed out, there are numerous types of Ebony. Then there's Coco....the universal wood that features in knife catalogues from yore..meaning a reddish coloured wood a type of Rosewood or Mahogany or...?

From my not very comprehensive experience - Ebony has long striped grain is dense and hard, colours vary but the grain not so much. Rosewoods vary enormously in colours too but the grain is more like pores in the skin, displaying spots or tiny holes. Blackwood can be distinguished not only by its jet colour but its lack of grain, almost smooth like stone. So I think Dylan's knives are both Rosewoods, his father must be correct.

Here's a GEC White Owl 68 that pmew (where is he these days???:confused:) very kindly gave me as a present. GEC describes it as Coco but it really is nearly all black and could be mistaken for an Ebony except that it has the tell-tale 'pores' and thus grain of a Rosewood type.

IMG_4222.jpg~original
 
I have a few knives made by GEC in Macassar Ebony. They show a somewhat open, pore-like grain that looks more like rosewood to me than the African Blackwood that most people think of when they say "ebony". Just to confuse things, according to the Wood Database:


Comments: To be considered the original ebony, African Blackwood was imported and used in Ancient Egypt thousands of years ago. Even the name “ebony” has an Egyptian derivation as “hbny”—which has been shown to refer to primarily to Dalbergia melanoxylon, rather than the species which are considered to be ebony today: such as those in the Diospyros genus. In addition, African Blackwood is technically in the Rosewood genus (Dalbergia), and is more stable and resistant to movement and warping than other types of ebony.

Related Species:

 
So I am pondering something interesting today. Last weekend I visited my biological father, who happens to be quite a knife collector himself, and I usually make a point to show him whatever knives that I currently have on my person when I come over. It just so happened that since I was there to help on some mechanical projects, I brought some knives that I intended for work which included my GEC Churchill and my Lambsfoot in Ebony.

Now my father is quite a craftsman and tradesman and has done a fair amount of woodworking over the years and the first thing he said when I handed him the Lambsfoot was, "Oh, this is some nice Rosewood!". I responded, saying, "Uh no, that's Ebony." To which he replied, without skipping a beat, "You're wrong, it is some variety of Rosewood". After that he proceeded to explain to me the difference in grain between a wood classified as Ebony versus one classified as Rosewood. It just so happened that I had my Churchill with me as well, which is in some beautiful Ebony, no question about it, and he was able to point out the rather apparent differences between the two woods.

So that left me in a state involving no small amount of consternation as I began to realize that he very likely was correct. I recall my initial disappointment when I received the knife, thinking it wasn't a very splendid example, and I also remember on a number of occasions that the wood has been referred to as Rosewood by some who have commented on my pictures in the past. This, coupled with the notion that every time I see one of you fine folks posting your Ebony Lambsfoot, it has a luster and density that is markedly absent on my own. In fact, mine looks nothing like your ebony examples and I am beginning to think I might have been hoodwinked, though perhaps not intentionally.

So I decided to compare the knife with Rosie to see if there were some similarities in grain and overall appearance and I am sad to say, I think the proof is in the pudding, as they say. If you take away the color variations, I don't think you could tell the woods apart... That all being said, it is still a very finely made knife, I just happened to pay for an Ebony, not a second one in Rosewood.

What do you folks think? (Keep in mind, Rosie is a bit more "pocket-worn")

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KHaJjjM.jpg


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Dylan - I have handled a lot of ebony over the years, from numerous species - Gabon, Macassar, Madagascar, Kamagong, Malaysian Blackwood, to name a few, and the dalbergia species that has been sold as ebony in the past, African blackwood. Likewise, a wide variety of rosewood species, including cocobolo, kingwood, honduran, tulipwood, etc. If you were to hand me your ebony lambsfoot and ask what the wood is, my first inclination would be macassar or kamagong, or one of the closely related species. Possibly gabon or east Indian with some pale stripes. It is a combination of grain, pores, and the underlying color striping/growth rings. It does not look like a rosewood (dalbergia). In rosewoods, the growth rings and color stripes coincide, too. In the striped ebony woods, the dark and light bands do not follow the growth rings with the pores, but often cut across the growth rings. I never realized that until one day I was looking at a large block of macassar and wondered how the growth rings could grow in such a convoluted pattern because of how the dark stripes looked like a marbled cake. But on close inspection, I could see the growth rings, and they were independent of the stripes and in a nice circular pattern like we usually expect with tree growth rings.

I suspect that Wright uses East Indian rosewood, that is what it looks like.
 
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Dylan - I have handled a lot of ebony over the years, from numerous species - Gabon, Macassar, Madagascar, Kamagong, Malaysian Blackwood, to name a few, and the dalbergia species that has been sold as ebony in the past, African blackwood. Likewise, a wide variety of rosewood species, including cocobolo, kingwood, honduran, tulipwood, etc. If you were to hand me your ebony lambsfoot and ask what the wood is, my first inclination would be macassar or kamagong, or one of the closely related species. Possibly gabon or east Indian with some pale stripes. It is a combination of grain, pores, and the underlying color striping/growth rings. It does not look like a rosewood (dalbergia). In rosewoods, the growth rings (and the pores) and color stripes coincide, too. In the striped ebony woods, the dark and light bands do not follow the growth rings with the pores, but often cut across the growth rings. I never realized that until one day I was looking at a large block of macassar and wondered how the growth rings could grow in such a convoluted pattern because of how the dark stripes looked like a marbled cake. But on close inspection, I could see the growth rings, and they were independent of the stripes and in a nice circular pattern like we usually expect with tree growth rings.

I suspect that Wright uses East Indian rosewood, that is what it looks like.

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge :thumbsup:
 
Wow Alan, that looks incredible!! :eek: :cool: Fantastic work Dylan, thanks so much for doing these :) :thumbsup:
 
The very nice Slips from Dylan arrived today . I still DO NOT HAVE my knife order yet , so I have tried my TEW for fit and it is a good fit .



My knife order had been on its way from the Jamaica , New York Post Office to our town for 10 Days and then yesterday it was received back into the Queens , New York Post Office . And these people get to vote ????
I think Dylan did a great job on these Slips . He even honored my request for Natural Leather on one of them . My hat is off to you young man !!!!

Harry
 
The very nice Slips from Dylan arrived today . I still DO NOT HAVE my knife order yet , so I have tried my TEW for fit and it is a good fit .



My knife order had been on its way from the Jamaica , New York Post Office to our town for 10 Days and then yesterday it was received back into the Queens , New York Post Office . And these people get to vote ????
I think Dylan did a great job on these Slips . He even honored my request for Natural Leather on one of them . My hat is off to you young man !!!!

Harry
Great choice on the two slips Harry. I'm sorry your knives have not arrived yet. Jeez. Hopefully soon huh?
 
Great choice on the two slips Harry. I'm sorry your knives have not arrived yet. Jeez. Hopefully soon huh?
Thanks Alan . I ordered 2 slips to match up with the knife order . One of the knives will be either sold or gifted . Have not made up my mind yet . My knives supposedly departed from Queens . Hopefully I will have them by Wednesday or sooner .
Take care my friend .

Harry
 
So I am pondering something interesting today. Last weekend I visited my biological father, who happens to be quite a knife collector himself, and I usually make a point to show him whatever knives that I currently have on my person when I come over. It just so happened that since I was there to help on some mechanical projects, I brought some knives that I intended for work which included my GEC Churchill and my Lambsfoot in Ebony.

Now my father is quite a craftsman and tradesman and has done a fair amount of woodworking over the years and the first thing he said when I handed him the Lambsfoot was, "Oh, this is some nice Rosewood!". I responded, saying, "Uh no, that's Ebony." To which he replied, without skipping a beat, "You're wrong, it is some variety of Rosewood". After that he proceeded to explain to me the difference in grain between a wood classified as Ebony versus one classified as Rosewood. It just so happened that I had my Churchill with me as well, which is in some beautiful Ebony, no question about it, and he was able to point out the rather apparent differences between the two woods.

So that left me in a state involving no small amount of consternation as I began to realize that he very likely was correct. I recall my initial disappointment when I received the knife, thinking it wasn't a very splendid example, and I also remember on a number of occasions that the wood has been referred to as Rosewood by some who have commented on my pictures in the past. This, coupled with the notion that every time I see one of you fine folks posting your Ebony Lambsfoot, it has a luster and density that is markedly absent on my own. In fact, mine looks nothing like your ebony examples and I am beginning to think I might have been hoodwinked, though perhaps not intentionally.

So I decided to compare the knife with Rosie to see if there were some similarities in grain and overall appearance and I am sad to say, I think the proof is in the pudding, as they say. If you take away the color variations, I don't think you could tell the woods apart... That all being said, it is still a very finely made knife, I just happened to pay for an Ebony, not a second one in Rosewood.

What do you folks think? (Keep in mind, Rosie is a bit more "pocket-worn")

dM4y0t8.jpg


KHaJjjM.jpg


stpbC6h.jpg

OK, here are some pictures to illustrate. First, in rosewoods (dalbergia), the color stripes follow the growth rings. But in ebonies (diospyros), the color stripes are independent of the growth rings. In most pieces of ebony, it is difficult to see the growth rings because the wood is dark, but here is a block of macassar that is light enough to see that the color stripes cut across the growth rings:
Lwf162j.jpg


And some Malaysian Blackwood and Black & White ebony
cTRryTg.jpg


It is common to have ebony with small pores, here are some examples of macassar (forgive the presence of some old Buck knives in this thread!)
dm7lugQ.jpg

G6nTyyc.jpg

8rROiCd.jpg

hCrhIws.jpg


A similar ebony is Kamagong (Philippine ebony), which is much finer grained than macassar, here are a couple pieces (it is illegal to export the raw wood from the Philippines, but you can buy finished articles, such as jewelry boxes, for very little money there and then use the wood for your own project:
4jyFFwz.jpg

mlJGKY0.jpg


I like kamagong better than macassar because most of it has no pores, it polishes up to a beautiful smooth surface.

For the black ebony, it is normally Gabon ebony, and occasionally East Indian ebony or Madagascar ebony. Normally they are uniform black. It is common to see gabon ebony with the same pore structure visible in the macassar ebony above, and I have a few pieces that have larger pores more like dalbergia. It is rare to find Gabon ebony with no pores, but I got a couple blocks a long time ago with fabulous wood, I had this Queen rehandled with that wood:
2cwOvML.jpg

And Madagascar ebony can be found like that too, an example is this Marjacq (again, forgive the non-lambsfoot content):
Nvh5UvU.jpg


A lot of the cocobolo out there will turn very dark over time and is often confused with ebony. It is not hard to spot once you know what to look for, with the grain structure and pores, and also because old pocketworn cocobolo has more of a waxy look while ebony will usually exhibit a polished look that is different from cocobolo. Also, if you hold it in direct sunlight and see reddish highlights, it is a dalbergia (cocobolo or African blackwood). I have yet to see a diospyros sample that had a reddish overtone in direct sunlight. If a diospyros has lighter portions, it will be brown or gray in appearance.

Now, back to the knife in question. The color and grain look like ebony. I don't know what ebony species is used by Wright, but it is probably Gabon, but possibly East Indian. Historically, when Gabon ebony was cut they would only take the prime uniform black wood and discard the parts that had stripes. As the availability of Gabon ebony has declined in recent years, more of the striped wood is making it to the market.

I should probably close this with a picture of an appropriate lambsfoot. The mark side is very fine grained with no pores; the pile side has pores like the macassar ebony shown above.
VtD8O73.jpg
 
L lambertiana thank you for extremely educational posts about ebony. Very interesting stuff! :thumbsup:

As Jack showed in his post above, my ebony Lambsfoot is also not jet black and I’d been wondering about that. All this information helps me understand and appreciate the world of ebony. It’s much wider than I had realized!
 
The very nice Slips from Dylan arrived today . I still DO NOT HAVE my knife order yet , so I have tried my TEW for fit and it is a good fit .



My knife order had been on its way from the Jamaica , New York Post Office to our town for 10 Days and then yesterday it was received back into the Queens , New York Post Office . And these people get to vote ????
I think Dylan did a great job on these Slips . He even honored my request for Natural Leather on one of them . My hat is off to you young man !!!!

I hope your knives arrive soon Harry, I think they'd have got to you faster with standard mail, absolutely disgraceful :( Another knife got shipped all the way back here because USPS said they couldn't find the address! :mad:

Great work on those slips Dylan :thumbsup:
 
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