Guardians of The Lambsfoot!

Jack Black said:
I posted something on British Blades many years ago, but that site is gone now of course. It was in many ways a very frustrating period. The knives were all fixed-blades, and received a very good reception. I put a great deal of work into them (my avatar is from the business). Unfortunately, I discovered that there were still some rascals in the trade :(
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Oh, sorry to hear that, mate. It was still commendable of you to have a crack at producing quality Sheffield made knives. I suspect generations of great Sheffield working cutlers turn in their graves, every time a tourist buys a Chinese made Taylor's Eye Witness knife.:(

Jack Black said:
Mention in Dispatches to Cambertree, who had a lot more photos to re-post than most. If you still have photos which aren't
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Thanks, my friend, I think I still have a few posts to fix, but should have them all sorted by mid week.:thumbsup:

Half/Stop said:
Chin, I have a busy weekend ahead but I will try to work in some new photos. Always happy to oblige a fellow Guardian!:)
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Fantastic Ron, thanks for taking the time to post those fine pics.:):thumbsup:

Apart from the chance to enjoy seeing your superb knife again, I'm interested in the silhouette/side profile lines of classic Lambsfoot knives.

That 'Radiant of yours has a gracefully tapering blade spine down to the tip, and a nice continuous flow from handle end to blade tip. Some Lambsfoot knife handles rise to a slight kind of hump, just around the pivot area, and the spine and blade edge drop below horizontal towards the tip.

You can see it on the ox-horn Lambsfoot to the left in this old photo.

zyIiwbj.jpg


I'm not even sure it's intentional, but I mimicked that shape on the Lambshank, to help afford a comfortable sabre grip, and it seems to work well.

HA49B3G.jpg


Jack Black said:
Thanks :) I had a pull pics off the net, but here's a vintage Parker Space Shuttle souvenir knife that comes close! :D Made in Japan rather than the US though, so the search for a US-made Lambsfoot continues! ;) :thumbsup:

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Nice find there :D- I wonder if the brainwave for that actual design originated in America or Japan?:eek:

If it was designed in Japan, it's possible the maker - probably in Seki I'm guessing, had never seen or heard of a Lambsfoot pattern knife before.

I laughed, imagining the maker picking up one of their prototypes one quiet afternoon, and thinking 'Hmmm: the blade on this ugly knife they wanted 10,000 pieces of, actually handles quite nicely - now if I just changed the handle shape, it could be a great working knife'!:D:p
 
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Cambertree said:
Oh, sorry to hear that, mate. It was still commendable of you to have a crack at producing quality Sheffield made knives. I suspect generations of great Sheffield working cutlers turn in their graves, every time a tourist buys a Chinese made Taylor's Eye Witness knife.:(



Thanks, my friend, I think I still have a few posts to fix, but should have them all sorted by mid week.:thumbsup:



Fantastic Ron, thanks for taking the time to post those fine pics.:):thumbsup:

Apart from the chance to enjoy seeing your superb knife again, I'm interested in the silhouette/side profile lines of classic Lambsfoot knives.

That 'Radiant of yours has a gracefully tapering blade spine down to the tip, and a nice continuous flow from handle end to blade tip. Some Lambsfoot knife handles rise to a slight kind of hump, just around the pivot area, and the spine and blade edge drop below horizontal towards the tip.

You can see it on the ox-horn Lambsfoot to the left in this old photo.

zyIiwbj.jpg


I'm not even sure it's intentional, but I mimicked that shape on the Lambshank, to help afford a comfortable sabre grip, and it seems to work well.

HA49B3G.jpg




Nice find there :D- I wonder if the brainwave for that actual design originated in America or Japan?:eek:

If it was designed in Japan, it's possible the maker - probably in Seki I'm guessing, had never seen or heard of a Lambsfoot pattern knife before.

I laughed, thinking of the maker picking up one of their prototypes one quiet afternoon, and thinking 'Hmmm: the blade on that ugly knife they wanted 10,000 pieces of actually handles quite nicely - now if I just changed the handle shape, that could be a great working blade'!:D:p
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It was definitely a mission at the time my friend, in retrospect more of a fool's errand! :rolleyes: I was shocked by some of the incompetent working practices I found, particularly with regard to heat-treatment. My knives used vacuum-hardening with a 2 stage gaseous nitrogen treatment, rather than bucket and blowtorch, or worse! :eek:

I really appreciate your efforts with the pics Chin :thumbsup:

I was very excited when Paul Hilborn posted one of those NASA knives years ago, thinking it could be an actual USA made Lambsfoot! :D

Interesting post, as always, my friend :D :) :thumbsup:
 
Cambertree said:
Some Lambsfoot knife handles rise to a slight kind of hump, just around the pivot area, and the spine and blade edge drop below horizontal towards the tip.... I mimicked that shape on the Lambshank, to help afford a comfortable sabre grip, and it seems to work well.
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Interesting observation, Chin. I can definitely imagine how that shape would benefit the Lambshank.

Would you say that the lambsfoot in Jack's "Gaurdians of the Lambsfoot" signature image also exhibits that feature?
 
waynorth said:
It would be great if you showed your Lambsfoot to Bill at Great Eastern, Ron!
In fact, if everyone who is going to the Rendezvous brought one to show him, we might yet see a made in America version!!!
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Good thinking Charlie - Ron and Harry will make grand emissaries for the Guardians. If that Humphreys Radiant and Harry's TEW doesn't get Bill's creative juices flowing, then nothing will! Maybe bring some tablet pics of Mallory's W. E. Oates Lambsfoot knife, too!

Let's get them seeds planted, boys!

Jack Black said:
I was shocked by some of the incompetent working practices I found, particularly with regard to heat-treatment. My knives used vacuum-hardening with a 2 stage gaseous nitrogen treatment, rather than bucket and blowtorch, or worse! :eek:
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Yes, heat treatment of steel is a completely fascinating subject to me - and one of the first areas, I suspect, where corners are cut by unscrupulous or incompetent operators.

Your blades with proper heat treatment protocols would have been like night and day in performance, compared to something carelessly heated to colour with a blowtorch, and dunked in cold water!

I utilised a calibrated vacuum oven, with metal wraps on the knives, and aluminium plate quenching before the liquid nitrogen cryo aging and temper cycles, for the Lambshank and mule.

It's amazing what can be done with the right heat treatment equipment and knowledge these days - and conversely, I think I've had knives before that must have had a similar heat treatment to what you were shocked by in the Portland Works - or none at all, perhaps.
 
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waynorth said:
It would be great if you showed your Lambsfoot to Bill at Great Eastern, Ron!
In fact, if everyone who is going to the Rendezvous brought one to show him, we might yet see a made in America version!!!
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i was hoping to have some bought and sent off from thesheffieldcutleryshop on the bay in time, but looks like the seller is away until 8/10 at which point we will already be present at the rendezvous.

currently struggling to purchase some because of the blade appearance? one of them seems to be listed as lambsfoot and other as large lambsfoot but the knife appears practically the same. love the aesthetics of these since ive been trying to chase the ancient barlow down. some of the blades look bigger? does any one have an assortment of these next to each other? thanks!

Edit: their regular site only ships in UK can any one confirm? Thanks
 
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WhittlinAway said:
Interesting observation, Chin. I can definitely imagine how that shape would benefit the Lambshank.

Would you say that the lambsfoot in Jack's "Guardians of the Lambsfoot" signature image also exhibits that feature?
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Did you mean this one, Greg?

IMG_7965.JPG
IMG_7965.JPG
Yes, it seems to have that shape where the line on the top of the knife dips along the back of the swayback handle then rises to the bolster and pivot area - then the blade has a slight downward tilt.
It's not as pronounced as some other Lambsfoot knives though.

The 'Silent Lambsfoot' is another good example of that type of shape.

The lovely old Lambsfoot knives like Ron's Humphreys Radiant and the Unity example above seem to have more aesthetic sensibilty to them, in that viewed from the side, they are more of a sleek wedgelike shape - they definitely look more pleasing to the eye IMO - but, curiously, the ones with the slight humpback in the pivot area are very comfortable in hand.

As I said, I'm not even sure if it's an intentional variation.

ABS Master Smith, Murray Carter once mentioned to me, how if he forges a batch of say, twenty knives, he will vary the dimensions a little on maybe two or three knives - as a way of formalising that random process where little variations and mistakes, can sometimes result in an Eureka moment. He said the hand and eye are so hyperattuned to the imagined concept of a 'perfect knife', that even tiny variations in weight, balance and size, can suddenly result in an instantly recognised superior knife to the others in a batch - and this will sometimes result in the evolution of his patterns.

This phenomenon would no doubt be quite apparent for a working cutler making dozens of Lambsfoot knives in a day.
 
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mrknife said:
i was hoping to have some bought and sent off from thesheffieldcutlery shop in time, but looks like the seller is away until 8/10 at which point we will already be present at the rendezvous.

currently struggling to purchase some because of the blade appearance? one of them seems to be listed as lambsfoot and other as large lambsfoot but the knife appears practically the same. love the aesthetics of these since ive been trying to chase the ancient barlow down. some of the blades look bigger? does any one have an assortment of these next to each other? thanks!
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Here's some old handle comparison pics I pulled up - if you want specific comparisons with a 'known' knife pattern let me know.

M07BWkx.jpg

gzRHzVF.jpg


(L to R, bottom pic) Ebony AW&S Lambsfoot; Rosewood AW&S Tackler's Knife - handle is much the same as the 'standard size swayback Lambsfoot'; Ox-horn Lambsfoot - thinner, sleeker and lighter than the 'standard' Lambsfoot; GEC 15, and AW&S Ettrick.

The large Lambsfoot is a fair bit bigger in person - I don't have one.

Jack's superb, striated, caramel coloured, horn Lambsfoot, posted in the last couple of pages is a large sized Lambsfoot. Personally, I might use one as a camp knife, but probably wouldn't EDC it.

wwBtAij.jpg


These are all A. Wright and Son Lambsfoot knives - except the jigged bone one second from left - that's a Unity Co-op made Lambsfoot.

They're quite solid, and handfilling - they don't really feel like any other pattern to me.

Good to see you got bit by the Lamb, MrKnife!
 
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Cambertree said:
Here's some old handle comparison pics I pulled up - if you ..

They're quite solid, and handfilling - they don't really feel like any other pattern to me.

Good to see you got bit by the Lamb, mr knife!
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thank you so much for the close up comparisons!
Where I seem to be stuck was how some of them have the swell? Im positive I cant link the ebay ones, but the ones I have been eyeing seem to share the body shape of the 15/77. also some of them seem to have larger blades?

I will pm you these links, because they are all bay links. unfortunately the sheffield cutlery shop seems to ship mainland? that or i just havent navigated the site properly. they are also missing a few of the ones I saw on the bay.

thanks for the assistance!
 
Beautiful knives Chin and Jack :thumbsup: :thumbsup: ....

Chin - you have me intrigued with that knife you call a lambshank :) ... That just looks awesome and looks to fit the hand well :thumbsup: ...
 
Cambertree said:
Yes, heat treatment of steel is a completely fascinating subject to me - and one of the first areas, I suspect, where corners are cut by unscrupulous or incompetent operators.

Your blades with proper heat treatment protocols would have been like night and day in performance, compared to something carelessly heated to colour with a blowtorch, and dunked in cold water!

I utilised a calibrated vacuum oven, with metal wraps on the knives, and aluminium plate quenching before the liquid nitrogen cryo aging and temper cycles, for the Lambshank and mule.

It's amazing what can be done with the right heat treatment equipment and knowledge these days - and conversely, I think I've had knives before that must have had a similar heat treatment to what you were shocked by in the Portland Works - or none at all, perhaps.
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Me too Chin, though I didn't expect to have to spend so much learning about it when I embarked on my knife project. Seeing a cutler grinding knives with gloves on, and the blades starting to glow, was the first indication that things were not as I had imagined! Then they didn't seem to have any formal HT arrangement. I've seen one maker with a contemporary reputation ship knives which had received no treatment at all! :eek: I remember you talking about the HT for your Lambshank, excellent :thumbsup:

Cambertree said:
As I said, I'm not even sure if it's an intentional variation.

Knifemaker, Murray Carter once mentioned to me how if he forges a batch of say, twenty knives, he will vary the dimensions a little on maybe two or three knives - as a way of formalising that random process where little variations and mistakes, can sometimes result in an Eureka moment. He said the hand and eye are so hyperattuned to the imagined concept of a 'perfect knife', that even tiny variations in weight, balance and size, can suddenly result in an instantly recognised superior knife to the others in a batch - and this will sometimes result in the evolution of his patterns.

This phenomenon would no doubt be quite apparent for a working cutler making dozens of Lambsfoot knives in a day.
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I'd be surprised if it was, innovation in Sheffield is uncommon in modern times unfortunately! :rolleyes: Interesting discussion point though :thumbsup:

Cambertree said:
Here's some old handle comparison pics I pulled up - if you want specific comparisons with a 'known' knife pattern let me know.

M07BWkx.jpg

gzRHzVF.jpg


(L to R, bottom pic) Ebony AW&S Lambsfoot, Rosewood AW&S Tackler's Knife - handle is much the same as the 'standard size swayback Lambsfoot', ox-horn Lambsfoot - thinner, sleeker and lighter than the 'standard' Lambsfoot, GEC 15, and AW&S Ettrick.

The large Lambsfoot is a fair bit bigger in person - I don't have one.

Jack's superb striated, caramel coloured, horn Lambsfoot, posted in the last couple of pages is a large sized Lambsfoot. Personally, I might use one as a camp knife, but probably wouldn't EDC it.

wwBtAij.jpg


These are all A. Wright and Son Lambsfoot knives - except the jigged bone one second from left - that's a Unity Co-op made Lambsfoot.

They're quite solid, and handfilling - they don't really feel like any other pattern to me.

Good to see you got bit by the Lamb, Mrknife!
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Helpful, as always, my friend, and some great pics :thumbsup:

mrknife said:
thank you so much for the close up comparisons!
Where I seem to be stuck was how some of them have the swell? Im positive I cant link the ebay ones, but the ones I have been eyeing seem to share the body shape of the 15/77. also some of them seem to have larger blades?

I will pm you these links, because they are all bay links. unfortunately the sheffield cutlery shop seems to ship mainland? that or i just havent navigated the site properly. they are also missing a few of the ones I saw on the bay.

thanks for the assistance!
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Here's a comparison pic of the large and medium A.Wright blades. They do another slightly smaller. I couldn't resist snapping up the larger Lambsfoot, but certainly prefer the smaller ones for EDC :) Discussion of specific purchasing arrangements is best done by PM, so as not to void the sub-forum guidelines :thumbsup:

A.Wright Buffalo Lambsfoot Knives.JPG

LongBlade said:
Beautiful knives Chin and Jack :thumbsup: :thumbsup: ....
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Thank you very much :) :thumbsup:
 
LongBlade said:
Beautiful knives Chin and Jack :thumbsup: :thumbsup: ....

Chin - you have me intrigued with that knife you call a lambshank :) ... That just looks awesome and looks to fit the hand well :thumbsup: ...
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That's very kind of you, Lee.

The Lambshank was an attempt at making a light, handy, high performance fixed blade version of a Lambsfoot pocketknife.

It arose out of an earlier discussion in this thread.

There's more on the Lambshank here.

Once I get those old posts fixed up, I'll put some notes together for a progress review.
 
Jack Black said:
Me too Chin, though I didn't expect to have to spend so much learning about it when I embarked on my knife project. Seeing a cutler grinding knives with gloves ....



Here's a comparison pic of the large and medium A.Wright blades. They do another slightly smaller. I couldn't resist snapping up the larger Lambsfoot, but certainly prefer the smaller ones for EDC :) Discussion of specific purchasing arrangements is best done by PM, so as not to void the sub-forum guidelines :thumbsup:

View attachment 742428



Thank you very much :) :thumbsup:
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thanks for the comparison pictures! that seems to be what I am trying to avoid, the sway back of the handles and a small blade. kind of looking for the smooth shape of the gec 15/77 design
 
Cambertree said:
Once I get those old posts fixed up, I'll put some notes together for a progress review.
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That's something to look forward to my friend :)

mrknife said:
thanks for the comparison pictures! that seems to be what I am trying to avoid, the sway back of the handles and a small blade. kind of looking for the smooth shape of the gec 15/77 design
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Like Marmite, I guess it's all a matter of taste! :D I certainly prefer the Swayback frames, and I suspect I'm not alone in that, but perhaps you are looking for something more like this? :thumbsup:

AW Stag Lambsfoot 'Senator' 4-7.jpg

Wright's insist on calling this model a 'Senator' :rolleyes: :thumbsup:
 
Jack Black said:
That's something to look forward to my friend :)



Like Marmite, I guess it's all a matter of taste! :D I certainly prefer the Swayback frames, and I suspect I'm not alone in that, but perhaps you are looking for something more like this? :thumbsup:

View attachment 742509

Wright's insist on calling this model a 'Senator' :rolleyes: :thumbsup:
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yes! you know my fondness for end caps well! i had one of those bookmarked, but seeing as how this place seems to refuse to ship to usa, ive put that on hold for now. I even made an account to register to see if theyd let me change the country, but looks like UK is a locked option. I was also eyeing the snakewood option as well at 60 pounds which converted is about $80, but for now I have two lambsfoots on the way. one from big internet shopping center (price gouged because I couldnt find it elsewhere) and one from a uk site that ships to usa. the bay and big internet shopping center seems to add quite a bit of a premium to the knives, that and the exchange rate. this is without shipping calculated :(

also the pictures on the site seems to make the senator appear very small when closed? there is a distortion in the image I suppose. Also I guess I couldve sanded it down a smidge when they got here to get rid of that swaying appearance. :rolleyes:
 
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Hope you take to the Lambsfoot MrKnife :thumbsup: I'd be grateful if you could please edit your posts to remove the commercial stuff though :thumbsup:
 
waynorth said:
It would be great if you showed your Lambsfoot to Bill at Great Eastern, Ron!
In fact, if everyone who is going to the Rendezvous brought one to show him, we might yet see a made in America version!!!
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Charlie, that sounds like a plan. I will bring my 3 examples to show Bill. Then you can apply the pressure to his arm! :D
 
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