Well, it's the old problem of Black Mesa really: people don't want to be harsh with their criticism because it's a fan project, it started out as a mod and really even the fact that it got finished is quite a huge thing. Because of this gathering the right feedback is hard for the devs.

Also: there's just the problem of BMS being a remake of Half-Life, really. Half-Life's design always relied on various sections providing different kinds of gameplay and that can be a bit hit and miss.

Originally posted by Zaxx:

Well, it's the old problem of the Black Mesa really: people don't want to be harsh with their criticism because it's a fan project, it started out as a mod and really even the fact that it got finished is quite a huge thing. Because of this gathering the right feedback is hard for the devs.

This is exactly what I figured, but in truth there's no such thing as 'harsh criticism', only '♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ criticism', and it pains me to no end that people don't understand this.

And yeah, but I personally see this as a problem stemming from where the developers have been working on something that's already been made for years now based on screenshots and playing the original game, and then they're being told to build something new right at the end, it doesn't seem like they're experienced in ground up level design, it's more just kinda winging it.

I hope this comes across in a constructive way:

When Crowbar Collective had something to work with they wanted to reacreate and improve upon but stay close to the template (i.e.: HL1) they really shined and did an outstanding job. Read: Everything earth based is great, and for details we have mod support (OaR Uncut etc ...).

Xen (the levels, not the whole world) as a general introduction also worked great and perfectly carried the environment based storytelling over to the borderworld.

After that the quality unfortunately went down, IMHO. And it seems to me that a lead writer and lead producer would have been necessary here, as the puzzles drag out too long and are repeated too often (something already seen in the first Xen levels) and environmental storytelling isn't present anymore in the end (no, showing the same conveyor for half an hour isn't telling much more than that the Xen forces have these kind of conveyors). And at a few places the new mechanics aren't introduced very well.
It could also be that after so many years they finally wanted to get it out the door (which is perfectly understandable) and they rushed the last levels. But then a clear and detailed "Xen to Nihilanth"-storyboard and design document that had to be created very early in BM-development would have helped: "Look, that is the vision we and especially the lead producer and writer have, this is what we need to get done in a few years".

I wish them luck and all the best for future projects (and I repeat: get a lead producer, don't be afraid of that, even the biggest und greatest rock bands in the world got one to have their product polished) and I wish us players at least some Interloper mods that slightly improves the first half and rewrites the second half and maybe add a simple scripted scene before Nihilanth.

In the end: Thank you for the game. But take the advice for future projects with own IPs seriously.

Interloper is fantastic IMO, it requires no major changes, even if certain people continually return to the forum to moan about it.

3709 recent reviews, response - overwhelmingly positive.
22027 overall reviews, response - overwhelmingly positive.
94 percent in fact.

It seems the 6 percent spend their time on the forum continually moaning about Interloper. A lot of the 'advice’ from these ‘experts’ in game design is that it’s too long and should be cut! If you don’t like it so much just skip the chapter and let the rest of us enjoy the journey.

I would never blame the mappers for the mistakes with the game if there are any. They probably PROBABLY had strict instructions on how to approach certain elements and areas, how they should look, how scripted they should be etc. The people who are in charge of the project and organization of it are probably the ones who decide on such things.

Originally posted by HECUsoldier:

I would never blame the mappers for the mistakes with the game if there are any. They probably PROBABLY had strict instructions on how to approach certain elements and areas, how they should look, how scripted they should be etc. The people who are in charge of the project and organization of it are probably the ones who decide on such things.

I might be wrong, but how I interpreted what some of the devs said on this forum is that the mappers or at least several different people were responsible for designing the different sections. It didn't sound like there was one detailed design document.
And still I don't blame the mappers, as they are there for mapping, not for designing or storytelling.

Remember how HL1 got made: It only became the landmark we know after a writer got on board (a little simplified here for keeping the post short).

It was the opposite for me. I thought the factory section was fun and looked great(especially near the end), except for the parts where you had to find the hidden goop sacks.

The jungle part really through me out of the game because it was way too earth-like. Just how did giant maple leaves end up on Xen? Giant exploding tomatoes are another addition that make it harder for me to take Xen seriously. The new enemies were pretty meme-y. Reverse barnacles and kamikaze houndeyes? I think they should have stuck to the original enemies.

Originally posted by JJD:

It was the opposite for me. I thought the factory section was fun and looked great(especially near the end), except for the parts where you had to find the hidden goop sacks.

The jungle part really through me out of the game because it was way too earth-like. Just how did giant maple leaves end up on Xen? Giant exploding tomatoes are another addition that make it harder for me to take Xen seriously. The new enemies were pretty meme-y. Reverse barnacles and kamikaze houndeyes? I think they should have stuck to the original enemies.

I'm with you with this, in 2012 when we found out that no Xen would be released yet I was so eager to play it that I started making my own Xen. It wasn't a big deal and I was very bad at making maps, very bad. Still it got popular fast because you know, it's Xen.

The thing is I've decided to put trees in the map. I remember to this day the complaints from the people, "why did you put trees in Xen, why did you do this", "Xen doesn't have trees wth are you doing" etc. and I figured, they are right. What the hell am I doing ? It makes no sense for Xen to have trees.

And now ? Official Xen is released full of locations that look like earth jungle with tons of trees and no one bats an eye. Weird.

I honestly didn't hate Interloper as much as I thought I would. In fact I didn't hate it at all. I feel like people really exaggerated how bad it was that I just had negative expectations when going in. But honestly, I rather enjoyed it. It definitely is one of the longer chapters of the game, but I feel like once you've gone through it once, you'll be able to get through it a lot faster on your second play through.

It's definitely an improvement over Half-Life. All of Xen is imo. I hated playing through the original Xen. The whole thing was covered in this ugly green texture that looked like it was just thrown up all over the place. Enemy placement didn't feel very organic either. You're traveling to the home world of the aliens you've been fighting from the start of the game and yet when you come there it feels like they've just been placed in specific areas so the player can fight them.

Black Mesa does a much better job at making the world believable. It actually feels like the xenian creatures are native to it. Even the factories of Interloper look more like factories to me. I had an overall blast with Xen. My only issue is performance would sometimes tank every now and then. I hope we see some optimization improvements.

Originally posted by ianMC:

Interloper is fantastic IMO, it requires no major changes, even if certain people continually return to the forum to moan about it.

3709 recent reviews, response - overwhelmingly positive.
22027 overall reviews, response - overwhelmingly positive.
94 percent in fact.

It seems the 6 percent spend their time on the forum continually moaning about Interloper. A lot of the 'advice’ from these ‘experts’ in game design is that it’s too long and should be cut! If you don’t like it so much just skip the chapter and let the rest of us enjoy the journey.

The Steam score is an overall score. We don't know how much people like or dislike Interloper based on this. I also gave Black Mesa a positive score despite that Interloper (and Gonarch's lair) has issues.

The first levels of Xen were fantastic though.

Originally posted by gast128:

Originally posted by ianMC:

Interloper is fantastic IMO, it requires no major changes, even if certain people continually return to the forum to moan about it.

3709 recent reviews, response - overwhelmingly positive.
22027 overall reviews, response - overwhelmingly positive.
94 percent in fact.

It seems the 6 percent spend their time on the forum continually moaning about Interloper. A lot of the 'advice’ from these ‘experts’ in game design is that it’s too long and should be cut! If you don’t like it so much just skip the chapter and let the rest of us enjoy the journey.

The Steam score is an overall score. We don't know how much people like or dislike Interloper based on this. I also gave Black Mesa a positive score despite that Interloper (and Gonarch's lair) has issues.

The first levels of Xen were fantastic though.

Yeah but we shouldn't start bombing the game with negative score only because Xen has issues. It doesn't cover most parts of the game anyway. I know you did not mean that, just sayin.

Not finished the game because of the same thing. Start is amazing, as soon as you facing the damn factories the game turns into a Mario or any other platformer. Devs forget that this is a f-ing FPS. Interloper is so bad that i changed my review. I rather choose not to have Xen at all that with this boring as hell platforming puzzles which sowing the pace as much as they can. I JUST WANT TO KILL NIHILANTH. I dont want to wander around this facilities. The elevator stage is where i surrendered. Quake II final level is better designed than this mess. So disappointed. And to make things even worse, you cant skip this ♥♥♥♥, because there is no maplist for Xen (if anyone has is, please give me Nihilanth map code, so i can finish this without facing this awful mapdesign). Most people like it but... i cant force myself to even complete this. Even original Doom maps easier than this.

to play the Nihilanth chapter and avoid Interloper just type sv_unlockedchapters 19 to unlock the chapters

Originally posted by Colonel Orange:

to play the Nihilanth chapter and avoid Interloper just type sv_unlockedchapters 19 to unlock the chapters

Thank God. Now i can finish the game. God Bless you, kind man.

No problem, I understand your frustration w/ Interloper however I do find it enjoyable. Hope you have fun w/ Nihilanth.