Author Topic: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...  (Read 72200 times)

Offline elikay

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #220 on: August 22, 2012, 03:10:17 PM »
lol. Cheftza of the issur and the gavra. You can't mix them. That case is sooo different. I'm not even sure where your logic is going. If you state your full logic in your first post it makes it a lot easier to respond to in general.
Dan claimed that elal didn't lose money since there was good PR, I am saying that should not matter.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 03:13:52 PM by elikay »

Offline AsherO

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #221 on: August 22, 2012, 03:12:21 PM »
Dan claimed that elal didn't lose money since there was good PR, I am saying that should not matter if the action is prohibited.

That was only one reason, he mentioned quite a few.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #222 on: August 22, 2012, 03:43:21 PM »
That was only one reason, he mentioned quite a few.
+1

So I got rabbi marburgers cell phone from a friend who says he's a really good guy. Should I text him asking for his email and ask him the questions raised in this thread?
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Offline rots5

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #223 on: August 22, 2012, 03:45:10 PM »
+1

So I got rabbi marburgers cell phone from a friend who says he's a really good guy. Should I text him asking for his email and ask him the questions raised in this thread?
i would suggest call, and be very nice bec he still is a very chashuv person, and explain to him the intricate details,
i spoke to rav today as well, and he did not want to say one word bec he said he has to know the details from a-z
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 03:51:01 PM by rots5 »
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Offline elikay

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #224 on: August 22, 2012, 03:47:29 PM »
+1

So I got rabbi marburgers cell phone from a friend who says he's a really good guy. Should I text him asking for his email and ask him the questions raised in this thread?
I would never text a Rabbi such a complex question, why not email him through the website where the shiur is hosted.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #225 on: August 22, 2012, 03:51:14 PM »
i would suggest call, and be very nice bec he still is a very chashuv guy, and explain to him the intricate details, i spoke to rav today as well, and he did not want to say one word bec he said he has to know the details from a-z
good idea. Rabbi chaim Cohen the head of halacha business institute (I think that's his name could be I heard it wrong) gave a psak the day of the deal that lichatchila you can buy the tickets with no problem in halacha at all. I believe his reason was because they are regulated by law to honor it.
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Offline rots5

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #226 on: August 22, 2012, 03:52:11 PM »
and therefore there is no on'ah (ASHERo)  ::)
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Offline shmuelb

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #227 on: August 22, 2012, 04:03:11 PM »
Why not go the classic route, write/type a Shayla to the Rav, jointly by Dan, JJ, AsherO etc. and he would write you a Teshuva. Maybe he will print it in his next sefer.
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline jj1000

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #228 on: August 22, 2012, 04:12:00 PM »
Why not go the classic route, write/type a Shayla to the Rav, jointly by Dan, JJ, AsherO etc. and he would write you a Teshuva. Maybe he will print it in his next sefer.
Why not by you? You don't have the same questions we do?
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Offline shmuelb

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #229 on: August 22, 2012, 04:34:27 PM »
I am less informed than the Rav. I do not know if YQ is really a scam or how the 3rd party thing is. You guys wrote very well, can put together a nice shaila. I would take out some stuff, keep the core points clear. You do not need my advice.

If you do not want to go this way and do not want to take me up on my offer to visit the lake, I don't mind asking the Rav myself.

Also, I think it can be good to bring the levavos together, either by writing to him directly or sitting together and having a lechaim  :D
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline ChAiM'l

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Re: Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #230 on: August 22, 2012, 06:07:34 PM »
Also, I think it can be good to bring the levavos together

:o

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #231 on: August 22, 2012, 07:35:50 PM »
+1

So I got rabbi marburgers cell phone from a friend who says he's a really good guy. Should I text him asking for his email and ask him the questions raised in this thread?
Call him, he's a real pleasant person, and a real outstanding Talmid Cahcham, there's nothing to be scared of. Just talk with proper respect obviously.
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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #232 on: September 02, 2012, 09:25:54 PM »
Email I received today.


The El Al Ticket Fiasco and Rationalism
Posted: 02 Sep 2012 06:24 AM PDT
As many of you know, a few weeks ago there was a very big mistake made with El-Al tickets, which were accidentally advertised for just a few hundred dollars - a fraction of the normal price. When the mistake was discovered, El Al decided to nevertheless honor the tickets, for reasons that are unclear. But the question was, what should those who purchased the tickets do? They might have originally thought that it was simply a sale, but once it became clear that it was actually a costly error, should they offer to return the tickets?

To my mind, this was a non-starter. Of course one should return the tickets! Not that I'm judging anyone who didn't - one should not judge someone until one is in their place. But it seems obvious to me that the proper course of action - not lifnim meshuras hadin, but the proper course of action - is to offer to return the tickets. El-Al's stated mechilah - presumably due to various pressures - is irrelevant. As the Torah says, v'asisa hayashar vehatov - "You shall do that which is just and good." Ramban notes that halachah does not necessarily govern every case, and one must extrapolate from existing halachos so as to exercise moral judgment in other cases. Taking advantage of someone's mistake, and thereby causing them a loss, is clearly immoral. The whole idea of the halachos of ona'ah is based upon this!

It was surprising, and even disturbing, to see how many people claimed that it was justifiable to keep the tickets. Many of the justifications involved assumptions about what is best for El-Al, as though the buyer is entitled to make that decision! Others justified it based on technical halachic considerations. I was wondering if there is perhaps a connection with rationalism.

As discussed in a post of a while back, Reasons for Mitzvos, one of the differences between rationalist and non-rationalist schools of thought is the issue of reasons for mitzvos. Non-rationalist approaches see the reasons as primarily metaphysical and unknowable. Rationalist approaches, on the other hand, see the reasons as theoretically comprehensible, and relating to improving our minds and behavior.

There is a well-known serious drawback with the rationalist approach, in that it can lead to the weakening of observance. As we see with no less a person than King Solomon, once a person believes himself to understand the reason for a mitzvah, there is a temptation to rationalize that it is not binding when the reason is presumed not to be present.

However, I think that it might not be appreciated that there is also an advantage with the rationalist approach. A non-rationalist is perhaps more likely to get caught up in the technical details of the halachah, and to assert that halachah is the start and end point of morality. The rationalist approach, on the other hand, encourages a person to grasp the spirit of the law as well as the letter of the law. In the case of the El-Al tickets, a rationalist will perhaps be less concerned with whether it is technically permissible to keep them, and more concerned with what the spirit of the law demands as moral behavior.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline DrDanny

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #233 on: September 02, 2012, 09:31:51 PM »
Did el-al state anywhere for a fact that they were coerced into honoring the tickets?
Or is that just an assumption (even if a very educated one-as were dealing with a airline that thinks a toothbrush free amenity kit is compensation for lost luggage)

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #234 on: September 02, 2012, 09:38:40 PM »
Did el-al state anywhere for a fact that they were coerced into honoring the tickets?


I hate the way he describes US DOT regulation as coercion. I also don't yet understand why Elal is more Jewish than Emirates, both are owned by a mixture of Jewish and gentile shareholders.
However, unlike the UA 4 mile tickets, there is a very clear precedent of the DOT forcing Korean to honor a similar price mistake. It was way more obvious to be a mistake in that case.

I do think this is part of broader over regulation which is killing our country, but that's a topic for another conversation.   
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #235 on: September 02, 2012, 10:13:26 PM »
There were lots of letters in the "readers write" of the Yated this week, anti taking advantage of ELAL, and anti the Yated lionizing (that's the exact word that was used :) ) Dan.
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Offline MarkS

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #236 on: September 02, 2012, 10:48:54 PM »
There were lots of letters in the "readers write" of the Yated this week, anti taking advantage of ELAL, and anti the Yated lionizing (that's the exact word that was used :) ) Dan.
The letters to the editor in the Yated continue:



Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #237 on: September 02, 2012, 10:58:25 PM »
cute quoting yourself :P

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #238 on: September 02, 2012, 11:01:18 PM »
@Dan, maybe give your old friend LeBron a call, and find out how to deal with celebrity and the negativity in the media.  :P
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Offline shmuelb

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Re: Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...
« Reply #239 on: September 03, 2012, 08:18:56 AM »
Email I received today.


The El Al Ticket Fiasco and Rationalism
Posted: 02 Sep 2012 06:24 AM PDT
As many of you know, a few weeks ago there was a very big mistake made with El-Al tickets, which were accidentally advertised for just a few hundred dollars -

All I can say, go back to the zoo! The apes know better than the zookeeper what is good for them.

It reminds me of a quote from Reb Dov S on Purim. He offered a drink to a neighbor vendor who said he is prohibited from drinking alcohol. DS responded "a wonderful religion, it makes a lot of sense! You are allowed to kill people but can not drink beer!"

Dan, did you meet the Rav Marburger when you were in the hood last week?
siyag lachachma :-)