Schneier on Security

Clive Robinson • February 27, 2009 2:31 PM

Have people considered there are two extreams to this “data” issue and that it is only as you aproach the middle that life becomes difficult?

Think of it this way, if absolutly no data is held at all then your past can be as you would wish it to be, as there would be no evidence to the contry.

Likewise if every part of your life is recorded infalably and unaltarably then you will be entirely responsable for your future, and nothing you say or do could be taken out of context.

In either case no six lines could hang an inocent man.

However like the entropy curve as you aproach the mid point the possabilities of being harmed reach a maximum.

This is because there are no perfect records that act as witness to each other.

That is your “infalable record bears witness to others infalable records. All should mesh together, if they do not then somewhere there is one or more fake records that will be detectable.

Therfore what ever we as free people decide there can be no inbetweens it must for our own safety be all or nothing.

Clive Robinson • February 28, 2009 12:08 AM

@ Teenage Lobotomy,

“Personally, I believe our lives are a journey to find a true feeling of self-fulfillment, narcissistic as that may sound, the fact is that we were born alone and we will die alone, no matter how many hands we hold along the way.”

That is true for all of us in one way or another.

Without going into the ins and outs of human emotional development in any depth very broadly we reach a stage around 7years old where our awarness of others feelings start to have meaning.

Basicaly we start to learn why we need a private and public self, and also how to communicate emotions.

We also develop an awarness of “our place in the world” and more importantly “with respect to time”. As we get older immortality starts to have significance.

For nearly all of us we only have two routes to immortality through our genetics and through the memory of our social circle.

For a very few our “deeds and actions” are such that thay become part of recorded history. But importantly not “us” as we see ourselves or as seen by our “loved ones”.

For reasons that I suspect are to do with our “monkey brain” that makes us run up trees when danger presents we remember the bad more than the good. Which might account for why as far as newspapers etc where concerned “there is no news like bad news”.

If you then bring in the sense of “ego” we are in our own heads the most important person in the universe. And most of us know “we are human” and have failings. Being aware of others failings make us feel superiour to others and justify our self importance to ourselves. It is why we gossip and what the majority of jokes are realy about (others pain and belittlement). And in turn this might account for our interest in Paris Hilton etc. We don’t want to know about “them” we want to know about “their failings”. Which probably accounts for “celeb gosip”, “Z-list celebs” and “reality TV” amongst many others.

As I said earlier our “worth” or self importance has to be “measured” in some way otherwise how would we “know we are better”.

The question is by what “scale”…

It appears that to be creative in the abstract or physical sense or to be a “genius” requires us to have “savant” abilities.

But to be suscessfull in the human sense requires very high degrees of social skills.

This gives rise indirectly to the concept of “where we live” be it “inside our heads” or “inside others heads”.

Which brings up the subject of Broad Spectrum Autisum.

Those with autistic tendencies tend to “live in their heads” those with strong social skills “inside others heads”.

Engineers, architects, scientists, artists and those we think of as being “creative” or “genius” nearly all have social skill issues and it has been sugested are to an extent autistic.

Then there is our level of intelect etc. The higher this is the less we live “in the body” the more we live “in the head”. This level of intelect -v- sensation appear to be orthaganol to savant -v- social. This gives rise to the notion of a plane of human existance.

Therefore how you see yourself and others depends on where you are on that plane. And it is likly you are going to understand those closest to you on the plane and in your polar vector.

And yes it appears there is a degree of nature and nurture (genetic &&/|| learn) to both of those scales and therfore the plain. That is the tendency of left handedness in engineers, architects and other creative types. Which is a path psycologists fear to tread.

However it apears that the creative intelects and the accountants have won (for now), the engineers are by their very “deed” “inheriting the earth” not by aquisition but by moving it into “their world” and recording the “actuality” for the accountants.

That is “data” and the ability to process it is “in head” not “in body” and easily captures “creativity” and “actuality” not “social” and “ephemeral”.

The fact that we will shortly have our lives recorded as data means that we will have immortality of “deed” and “actuality” for all of us but not immortality of the (forever?) “ephemeral” “soul”…

Dante was wrong in his “Divine Comedy” the ultimate hell is not his inferno…

It is to be condemed to the immortal world of the account your every deed weighed measured and recorded in your life’s ledger. Your soul forever expunged.

The final grim joke we that value the freedom to think and let our thoughts take flight built the shackless by which we will be forever teathered in their hell.

Clive Robinson • February 28, 2009 12:51 AM

@ Teenage Lobotomy,

A minor niggle,

“(and let’s be honest here, you can’t obtain something without taking from somewhere/someone else, first law of thermodynamics)”

Only in the sense of matter/energy and the forces they and time give rise to.

Choice or possability is the very essense of entropy.

My fav example (because my seven year old son “gets it”) is,

Lego bricks…

When they are all stuck together you have a model (rocket/space shuttle/plane etc). All you can do with it is move it around it’s center of gravity.

When they are appart they each have their own center of gravity and can freely move around each other. But there is no model it is disorganised cahotic. But importantly you have the freedom the possability to give meaning to it to make any model you want.

But by applying that order the possabilities decrease steadily.

Clive Robinson • February 28, 2009 1:48 AM

@ MKotS,

“Meanwhile, I’m off to deposit my penny in a savings account to pay for my dinner at Milliways. Care to join me?”

Can we make it breakfast?

That way we have time to argue the Bistro bill and make it somebody elses problem before we join the monks for lunch, then we can pop back for the concert.

Oh and please leave Marvin downstairs he is even more depressing when legless, and it is just not what we English call cricket.