Banning SW patents disables patent system?

Posted Nov 15, 2010 20:40 UTC (Mon) by jra (subscriber, #55261)
In reply to: Banning SW patents disables patent system? by FlorianMueller
Parent article: Red Hat's Secret Patent Deal and the Fate of JBoss Developers (Gigaom)

FlorianMueller wrote:

> Eben Moglen is indeed a major problem. I still haven't seen any problem
> he's ever solved for FOSS, but I've seen some he's contributed to.

Eben has tirelessly worked pro-bono on behalf of Free Software projects for longer than you've been around in this community. He has solved many major issues for the Samba project, and was instrumental in the FSF and EU vs. Microsoft case that opened up all Microsoft network protocols for Free Software to implement.

Florian, you really aren't fit to shine Eben's shoes.

Jeremy.

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Banning SW patents disables patent system?

Posted Nov 15, 2010 20:53 UTC (Mon) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link]

Eben has tirelessly worked pro-bono on behalf of Free Software projects

He talks a lot about pro-bono work but he operates the Moglen Ravicher law firm, which charges clients. The SFLC only advises non-commercial developers, but companies are the ones who have the biggest legal issues and he charges them. He says that his firm donates its profits to the SFLC, but he can define pretty arbitrarily what's a profit and what's simply paid to the lawyers working on the cases, such as him, for their work.

There was a lot of money involved with the antitrust efforts you described, particularly a lot of IBM money, and Eben Moglen has directly and indirectly received money from IBM on many occasions. I wouldn't call that pro-bono, even though I do believe that interoperability is worth fighting for. Interestingly, Eben and the others who fought for the cause when it helped Samba (such as ECIS) don't seem to care about interoperability in general. I don't see the fighting against IBM now -- well, IBM is known to fund them. So don't describe such guns-for-hire as idealists.

Banning SW patents disables patent system?

Posted Nov 15, 2010 21:03 UTC (Mon) by jra (subscriber, #55261) [Link]

> So don't describe such guns-for-hire as idealists.

For someone who claims to be a member of this community you don't seem to have any history here. You certainly have no memories of it.

In the early 1990's Eben spent his own money to fly around the country to represent Samba to corporations who were violating our copyright, and got them to stop. This was well before "Open Source" existed, or Linux was a gleam in IBMs eye. In addition he has negotiated many agreements between the Samba project and corporations who were using our code in ways that may have violated the GPL, if he had not been there to arbitrate between us.

I know several other occasions where he has done similar things for other Free Software projects. Eben has never charged us for any of this work.

Please take your untruths about Eben elsewhere. There are people here who have memories going back a lot longer than you.

Jeremy.

Banning SW patents disables patent system?

Posted Nov 15, 2010 21:09 UTC (Mon) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link]

You say "[i]n the early 1990's". According to Eben Moglen's own representation of the facts, he started practicing "free software law" in 1993.

Anyway, that was a long time ago, and you described it as if he was still doing mostly pro-bono work. That's why I mentioned his Moglen Ravicher firm. Also, the SFLC itself isn't the kind of charity as which he describes it. It has very substantial resources (contributed by large corporations) and I heard it takes cuts of the deals (such as settlements) it negotiates, which is also unusual for a charity.

Banning SW patents disables patent system?

Posted Nov 15, 2010 21:18 UTC (Mon) by jra (subscriber, #55261) [Link]

Last time I checked, 1993 was "in the early 1990's". Samba was started in 1991, and started to get traction in 1992.

> Anyway, that was a long time ago, and you described it as if he was still
> doing mostly pro-bono work.

Is this an apology I hear for attempting to attack Eben's good name because someone who knows him well and has *actual facts* about his behavior just gave you a smack down ? If so, it isn't a very good one. I'd work on your politeness if I were you.

Jeremy.

Banning SW patents disables patent system?

Posted Nov 15, 2010 21:24 UTC (Mon) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link]

Your "actual facts" relate to the early 1990's. I presented facts that concern the current modus operandi of the SFLC and the Moglen Ravicher law firm. I never criticized him for what he did in the early 1990's because I'm simply unaware of what he did then. I have criticized him only in recent years. That's why I believe that the facts I presented are the more relevant ones at this stage, and I don't see how something he did 17 years ago could possibly disprove what's known about his current modus operandi.

Banning SW patents disables patent system?

Posted Nov 15, 2010 21:29 UTC (Mon) by jra (subscriber, #55261) [Link]

*sigh*. That would be a "no" on the apology then. Shame :-(.

Never mind Florian, I'm sure you'll reply to this message and having the last word will mean "You win ! You win !" the argument.

Your employers really should take a close look at your modus operandi. By employing someone like yourself they're really wasting their money.

Honey catches more flies than vinegar every time.

Bye from me.

Jeremy.

Banning SW patents disables patent system?

Posted Nov 15, 2010 21:35 UTC (Mon) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link]

Unlike you, I don't have employers. Apart from having corrected you on that detail, I'm absolutely fine with ending the subthread right here and letting people look at the facts that were presented.