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Thread: WOOFIAN SOCIONICS

  1. #41
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default Model W is here + three dichotomies unearthed

    I didn't wanna nail it down until it was stable. Now that I started building stuff with Model W as a foundation; I originally posted this here, I'll post it again:

    .α. base crea . .β. base crea . .γ. base crea . .δ. base crea
    ILE +@Ne -#Ti . EIE +#Fe -@Ni . SEE +@Se -#Fi . LSE +#Te -@Si
    SEI +#Si -@Fe . LSI +@Ti -#Se . ILI +#Ni -@Te . EII +@Fi -#Ne
    ESE -#Fe +@Si . SLE -@Se +#Ti . LIE -#Te +@Ni . IEE -@Ne +#Fi
    LII -@Ti +#Ne . IEI -#Ni +@Fe . ESI -@Fi +#Se . SLI -#Si +@Te


    Going with just the Ego blocks frees everything up so much.

    Using Model W as a foundation, lots of the dichotomies can be laid out very simply:

    narrator -E, +I . irratnal oE, xI
    taciturn -I, +E . rational oI, xE

    aristcrt -P, +J . extrotim oP, xJ
    democrat -J, +P . introtim oJ, xP

    ethical .-N, +S . carefree oN, xS
    logical .-S, +N . farsight oS, xN

    intuitv .-T, +F . obstinat oT, xF
    sensory .-F, +T . yielding oF, xT
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  2. #42
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default more dichotomies unearthed + chatbox goldmine

    Last time I was able to take eight dichotomies and lay them out simply with plus/minus and focal/diffuse. I'm gonna do the same with accepting/creative thrown in the mix now too:

    extrotim acE, crI . irratnal acP, crJ
    introtim acI, crE . rational acJ, crP

    tactical acN, crS . emotivst acT, crF
    stratgst acS, crN . cnstrvst acF, crT

    result . ac-, cr+ . static . ac@, cr#
    process. ac+, cr- . dynamic .ac#, cr@

    negativist -@, +#
    positivist +@, -#


    As for the following, I was reminded of Galen's posting of an illustration of goats on a mountain re: Delta Aristocracy:

    InvisibleJim Today 01:40 PM enneastacks are like rubix cubes.
    InvisibleJim Today 01:40 PM my small fragile mind explodes trying to work them out
    woofwoofl Today 01:43 PM InJim what's the confusing part? I'm of the "more is more" school; if one part of something isn't obvious, then something elsewhere in the system may be more obvious
    InvisibleJim Today 01:44 PM Well, how can I say it
    InvisibleJim Today 01:44 PM I understand there is a desire to go as deep and as wide as possible.
    InvisibleJim Today 01:45 PM But I find enneagram to be a bit dubious and non-founded in observation and very epithetical
    InvisibleJim Today 01:45 PM As a consequence I can sit and derive things from it, but, I don't find it very realistic
    InvisibleJim Today 01:46 PM it also assumes a 'health momentum' direction that I find ethically flawed.
    woofwoofl Today 01:46 PM I've generally gotten more use out of unpermutated, and at times incomplete, tritypes as far as the numbers go
    InvisibleJim Today 01:47 PM It looks nice to your delta NFs with the 'nice occurs as you go up' form of behaviour, but for me I can respect that neurosis or negativity are fairly appropriate responses to ideas or situations that aren't right.
    InvisibleJim Today 01:47 PM Inclusivity and positivity to reckless abandon is as destructive a process as perpetual warfare, its an unsustainable position.
    InvisibleJim Today 01:48 PM As much in the level of the individual as in society as a whole.
    woofwoofl Today 01:48 PM and is that about the "integration" and "disintegration"? instead of seeing disintegration as a "bad" thing, which is stupid, I look at that type area as a bunker, a storehouse of nigh-infinite ammunition and artillery, that in times of retreat, would be good to take it easy nearby, and that would bring solidity to the main thing, and the integration being more of a thing that deals in advancement or smth
    InvisibleJim Today 01:48 PM That seems appropriate
    InvisibleJim Today 01:48 PM I'm just annoyed with the whole new age bullshit that enneagram emminates.
    woofwoofl Today 01:49 PM and you know what? what you just outlined sounds like part of all that is Delta Aristocracy; I knew there was something afoot, but if there's a linearity in the value system like that, then damn
    InvisibleJim Today 01:50 PM well yeah, its a fairly common disagreement that I have with Delta NFs
    InvisibleJim Today 01:50 PM They can't understand that you can perform a negative action for a positive outcome.
    InvisibleJim Today 01:50 PM anyway, I'm off to scavenge up some lunch.
    InvisibleJim Today 01:50 PM les bye
    woofwoofl Today 01:51 PM if I'm gonna make speculations, then I'll go with the destructive/reckless thing being -P stuff and the linearity in the values system being a +J thing
    woofwoofl Today 01:51 PM om noms! byeee

    More raw material fresh on the spot from the chatbox:

    Today 10:00 PM woofwoofl: zap! working on a post over here re: woofsoc, it'll be a while
    Today 10:01 PM zap: hey woof! & thx 4 using zap > ath
    Today 10:02 PM woofwoofl: how you do? got a fuck ton of bbcoding to do with links, and hellz yeaahh
    Today 10:03 PM woofwoofl: me and InJim had a cool run in chatbox that had smth to do with dem/aristo, and plus/minus could have smth to do with it all, and I'm ready to lay out seven dichotomies in a new post; some are repeats, but done in a diff. way
    Today 10:08 PM zap: k. it makes sense 4 aristo 2 b +J... it reminds a it of wat Smilex said about aristos as having abstract perception, concrete judgement & demos as opposite. if a quadra's XXTj is d xplicit/xternal organizer of a quadra (analyst, inspector, entrepreneur, admin). seeing as I c sensing as being more negative (rational, focused, resolute, etc), if a XXTj includes sensing dis would introduce more negativity i.e. narrowing of focus... thus a XSTj is necessarily process.
    Today 10:10 PM woofwoofl: daamn I always saw a certain rigidity that came into sharp focus @ LSI, but I never knew that the sharp focus @ LSE had a certain symmetry due to that, niice
    Today 10:12 PM woofwoofl: a dimensionality-based take on the plus-minus fxns, as opposed to the Gulenko assignment of the signs, would have the plus/minus charges split on the grounds of inert/contact, given I haven't fuckered up any of the signs (may need to double check that)
    Today 10:13 PM zap: LSE r sharply focused in dat dey obsessively focus on limiting Ni uncertainty/info scarcity, LSEs "desperately" maintain d xternal order. dey dont got d solidity of a Se-ego. while I think ur idea of d polr as 2nd creative function is nice, I prefer 2 c it as a "destructive" function. d individual tries 2 annihilate, evade, minimize, obscure or parasitize it, imo. LSEs ensure as many possibilities r accounted 4, some say dis is Ne-HA but I wonder if -Ne is simply d imagining while +Te ensures as
    Today 10:14 PM zap: many procedures as possible can b used. re inert/contact: ok cool, looking 4ward 2 it as I've only played around with function dichotomies a bit... in response 2 1 of CButterfly's posts, which I've yet 2 post.
    Today 10:17 PM woofwoofl: and yes, +Te as maximization of steps works; quality of the product, yes, but the product would be something outside of the Te thing itself; -Te would be more based around the quality of the Te stuff itself, and with Ni as a metric, it would make sense for that to mean a minimal amount of time, a minimal amount of steps
    Today 10:19 PM zap: XSTjs I've seen b called d fascists of d socion.... XXTj + intuition is aristocratic thus it gets more freedom thus result. compare Ashton's socionix 2 Chenault's (LSI, yea?) pod'lair. or Ashton saying in some post he disagreed with some LSE at work's introduction of new bureacracy. I'd say ILE is d type dat most obsessively & recklessly strives 4 new, broad perceptions. Don Quijote, inventor & all dat. + = maximalizations so strives 4, xtraversion is broad, so is intuition. so ILE gets d reckless combinati
    Today 10:19 PM woofwoofl: I got Gordon Ramsay as Se-LSI, Se-ESI works just fine too, especially for the purposes I'll get into; the approach to cooking he outlines is decidedly -Te oriented, a minimization of the amount of steps/procedure, and consequentially, a minimization of the amount of ingredients in a food, and a minimization of the amount of foods on a menu
    Today 10:22 PM zap: of CD + Ep... + NT. so dey get a careful + smooth mediator dual dat is SEI negativist + dynamic + SF. seems ILE just tries shit, which even tho irrational-seeming often yields some insight anyway. even from bad things sth positive may come. ILE is very Izzet-ish. SEE OTOH just tries erything, takes nothing 4 granted, believs d naturally weak can overcome d strong, as Gulenko has written about.
    Today 10:25 PM woofwoofl: and holey moley; I've seen ILE typings for JoBlo afoot; whether ILE, EIE, or IEE, the Ti would be Focal Ti; given Izzet for ILE, and that Blue would entail a sort of removed and mental approach, then I'm wondering a Blue : -Ti :: Green : -Fi deal, putting SEE as decidedly Gruul aka red/green
    Today 10:27 PM zap: ILE's got a certain intellectual focus which I think is apparent in JOA, Ineffable & hkkmr... regarding green as -Fi, interesting. truck thought green is d most envious color but I dunno if tere was anyting deeper than just d common association as such. also, regarding removing steps IIRC tere was some american industrialist sociologist which did xactly dat.... gonna look up his name.
    Today 10:28 PM zap: if Te is procedure it'd make a lot of sense a Si-cre (xplicit, also means Ej temperament) would maximalize d amount of steps.

    ...and then, all of LSE got crapped on.

    Today 10:29 PM Pookie: Yeah ESTJ's are the worse.
    Today 10:30 PM zap: "Yeah ESTJ's are the worse." def true IME.
    Today 10:31 PM truck: those meanie socioathic str8 male estjs, what are we gonna do with dem.
    Today 10:31 PM TheWholeEnglish: ESTJs r de worst!

    ...back to the main convo:

    Today 10:31 PM woofwoofl: sweet merciful lord, "maximalize the amount of steps" is unbelievably accurate; I'd see a focus on ensuring something of quality was being made, but good god, that sounds OPPRESSIVE
    Today 10:37 PM zap: & yea at LSE as oppressive, teir destruction of as Ni I c has 2 do with not just wasting time but consequently also destroying meaning. dey waste resources in short.
    Last edited by woofwoofl; 05-21-2014 at 05:25 AM. Reason: no actual edit was done from the original post, unnecessarily attempted to "correct" emotivist/constructivist due to insomnia
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  3. #43
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zap View Post
    ...some american 19th or 20th century industrial sociologist as an example of -Te approach... I can't recall his name tho. Maybe @mfckr or @consentingadult knows; they both seem pretty knowledgeable. His was name Tylor or Taylor sth.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Winslow_Taylor

    although sociologist often know about him, he's not considered a sociologist. I myself only learned about him some 25 years ago when I studied BA in university. He's considered a major player in the field. Not so in sociology.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

  4. #44
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default two plus/minus fxns unearthed, enneagrammatical suppositions; tales from the catbox, round two

    Lots of chatlog here. Since this all took place, I would move towards roughly condensing -Te into "efficiency" and +Te into "craftsmanship"; @zap recently offered the following:

    Today 04:22 AM zap: well, if -Te is kinda rough, opportunistic treatment of things, dat sure fits with http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ng-and-Renewal LIE - natural benefit, attained by personal, individual enterprise. ... LSE OTOH is dependent on organization LSE - artificial benefit, derived through organization of labor. ... so LIE kinda just picks up on w/e is profittable & uses it, LSE is more into "high quality thoroughness", having Ne's perfectionistic tendencies.

    Also the following, which I never even thought of at the time:

    zap Today 04:12 AM makes sense woof, considering SLI is called d craftman while ILI is a critic which leads things in d "generally desirable" direction.

    Given +Te creative, this would read as SLI effectively creating craftsmanship. Nice. Here's the convo that started it all:

    woofwoofl Today 06:24 PM Sting! I got him as LSI
    woofwoofl Today 06:25 PM I got Steward Copeland as another LII drummer too
    truck Today 06:27 PM some ppl say madonna is SLE but i say IEE hands down, she has to be a te valuer
    woofwoofl Today 06:28 PM strong =/= valued
    woofwoofl Today 06:29 PM I got her as 3w2 and I can see the case for 2w3
    truck Today 06:29 PM well i know that, still think she values te
    woofwoofl Today 06:29 PM why? curiouss
    woofwoofl Today 06:30 PM same w IEE > SEE
    truck Today 06:30 PM loves details and money
    truck Today 06:31 PM now courtney love is definitely beta SLE =D
    truck Today 06:31 PM madonna is too uppity moralistic delta to be some beta
    woofwoofl Today 06:31 PM mmm Courtney yesss
    Subteigh Today 06:32 PM you have Kurt as EII? ...never really understood their relationship
    truck Today 06:33 PM they're either conflictor/duals, either way you can definitely feel the yin-yang vibe
    woofwoofl Today 06:33 PM I'm still trying to figure out what on earth is behind the supposition that Te has anything to do with money
    woofwoofl Today 06:33 PM I got Kurt as Fe-IEI 5w4 and smth contra-flow on the stackings
    truck Today 06:34 PM not anything directly per se
    Subteigh Today 06:34 PM ah
    Subteigh Today 06:34 PM must have misread what you said
    truck Today 06:34 PM but just how much u enjoy it/put it on a pedastal or sth
    truck Today 06:35 PM Te gives money weight. isn't that so much obvious? the estj str8 male businessman capitalist?
    woofwoofl Today 06:35 PM given what me and zap went over in chatbox, I can see "details" as having a lot to do with +Te, and the notion of what's valued and unvalued being internally a nonfactor makes a hell of a lot of sense given E3
    woofwoofl Today 06:37 PM Gamma Te dealing in money works a bit better for me than Delta Te; the transfer of value from one place to another is facilitated by the existence of money, and this streamlining of intermediary tangible steps from what would take place during a barter suggests a move towards -Te
    truck Today 06:39 PM hmm it goes either way for me kinda between LSE and LIE
    woofwoofl Today 06:40 PM the LSEs I've known have been a bit needlessly picky and cautious re: unimportant details, like suggesting I put gloves on before taking out the trash, a stupid idea because the tying of the bag results in the gloves being removed, and more mess is created
    truck Today 06:41 PM oh dang i know what you mean
    truck Today 06:42 PM same thing happened to me with an LSE in ice cream store, they kinda advocate for physical awkward things that slow down producitvity that an LIE probably wouldn't care about okay so yeah i see what you mean
    woofwoofl Today 06:43 PM YES and this gets into a lot of what Ni-PolR, or maybe even on a wider scale, peak-Judicious, does that goes against what works for me; the supposition that time itself is nonexistent, that the world magically stops moving and gives people unlimited sanctuary to dick around
    truck Today 06:43 PM yeah it's so non intuitive that it feels like slogging through molasses lmao
    truck Today 06:44 PM lots of hate towards the LSEs. =( but jesus christ
    woofwoofl Today 06:45 PM a more connotationally neutral way of differentiating -Te from +Te would be that -Te would be closer to "money", and +Te would be closer to "craftsmanship"
    truck Today 06:46 PM wow i like that a lot
    truck Today 06:46 PM a lot of real life examples are popping up in my head =)
    woofwoofl Today 06:47 PM there is also the completely ass-backwards thing I encountered with many an ESxj that, when shit gets difficult on a wide scale for a lot of people, they'll attempt to halt the entire operation and get everyone settled; meanwhile, time marches on just as rapidly as ever, external demands pile to the fucking stratosphere
    truck Today 06:47 PM but i still think there's an overlap
    woofwoofl Today 06:48 PM and yep, there's always gonna be overlap, and this is what I kinda like about all this; peak Si-Cre, and consequentially, peak Judicious, hmm, that would mean +Te and -Fe
    woofwoofl Today 06:49 PM which is wild, because for the slamming-on-the-brakes stuff to be an attempt at eliminating all negative emotional states makes sense as well, and yes, absolutely bewildering to me

    I've been wanting to factor in enneagrammatical material; not by forcing it, but for finding sense there where socionical sense may end, and here it is. I recall E3 as giving an abstract physical impression of a smooth and frictionless surface, as opposed to any other position in the enneagram, in which there is a surface being felt that would identify any one person as themselves and no one else. A blank canvas effectively blurring out conventional notions of socionical valuation makes sense, and looking at things strictly in terms of dimensionality would be my next go to; for E3 SLE, this would theoretically result in an absolute dead heat between accepting -Se and creative +Te.

    More enneagram and MtG material below; raw, unsorted, and ready for who-knows-what:

    Ystrd 11:54 PM zap: galen r u still around? I wanna know wat u think about enemy color shards/wedges, do dey make sense at all? e.g. Junk. wouldnt d precesence of black necessitate d absence of GW?
    Today 12:25 AM Galen: I haven't thought about shards and wedges because they blend together too many themes and it just turns into ice cream soup
    Today 12:51 AM zap: yea I kinda agree with u tere Galen. altho I can still c some value in d Alara shards, Im skeptical of wedges. e.g. WBG... wats d compromise of white & black? blue. wats d compromise of black & green? red. wats d compromise of red & blue? black. thus a junk/BGW shard should actually b black.... some ppl made a BGW shard (Gentev, part of "Sertaria" google if u wanna read more) & called it anti-Grixis, might as well have Grixis as black+, "Gentev" as black-.
    Today 12:55 AM Galen: sounds like you're way overthinking this haha
    Today 12:55 AM woofwoofl: white + black = illuminati
    Today 12:57 AM woofwoofl: hm, black and green would both be lacking a certain volitional explosiveness that could never be achieved by simply averaging their raw sum
    Today 12:57 AM woofwoofl: same with black and white with a purely removed and mental thing with blue
    Today 12:59 AM woofwoofl: this all brings to mind certain dichotomous notions I was looking at in regards to the wheel of the enneagram
    Today 01:02 AM woofwoofl: a certain type of single-minded militance would exist at its most concentrated in white, as well as in a midpoint between red and black, yet they would manifest completely differently, like two separate monochrome pictures, each one being a negative of the other, the strictly opposite color balance portraying the exact same visual information, much like 3 is opposite the 7/8 area in the enneagram
    Today 01:03 AM Pookie: Oh how an ESTJ and an INFP both produce horrible work, because one is lazy and the other just sucks.
    Today 01:03 AM woofwoofl: bahaha yusss
    Today 01:03 AM Pookie: walk to far west and you end up in the east
    Today 01:04 AM Pookie: boomshakalaka
    Today 01:05 AM woofwoofl: yesss with black and green/white, there would be a certain gridlock
    Today 01:07 AM woofwoofl: a set amount of vitality would be fluidly redistributed amongst the whole of the sentient populace in both cases, and the difference would be whether death or life would be the vehicle
    Today 01:25 AM zap: yea @ woof it's kinda yin yang-y. also, solipsism is said 2 b blue/black some places, Ludwig Wittgenstein believed solipsism is just another name 4 realism, which is a green philosophy. also, found some artice with Wittgenstein insights & more which compared solipsism & schizophrenia, while it wasnt written by any1 involved with MTG I saw tons of blue/black-ish elements 2 wat was written tere. also, I posted again in ur thread.
    Today 01:28 AM zap: woof, do u recall Sertaria btw? Faskeria, Afresa, Cyrea, Ameran, Gentev. wat would u have d similarity btween black/blue & green as being btw? dey both seem 2 use stealth a lot. BU has an independent private mind & less "body empathy". dey make d xternal fit teir internal. green has more body empathy & make emselves fit d xternal, thus chameleonic / status quo-ish. dey r reflection of d outside.
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  5. #45
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default chatboxxroulette, typological exegeses, and black olives

    Today 07:33 AM woofwoofl: in an incredibly failed case of "strike while the iron's hot", the passage of time as I engorged myself on delicious black olives has all blurred my clear notion of what Fe may be, and on how the isolated nodes are symmetrical with Te in a way, but that the depth of the isolated datums would correspond to a sort of "truth" or a "reality" that keeps getting called to the witness stand by Beta NF peeps in particular, and which isn't represented in more blatant Te fragments, and would be served well by an
    Today 07:34 AM woofwoofl: evident map of Ti as opposed to the Fi voodoo
    Today 07:36 AM zap: I agree woof, is hard 2 nail down. seems it reads a lot into ppl's words tho, I saw strrrng ripping into Jem/Rubicon I think it was in some old thread dat way. also got criticized for dat approach by munenori2 4 using dat approach & not considering enough possibilities, which mune then went on to enumerate. perhaps it was a DA + Ne suggestive vs VS + Ni-dom clash...
    Today 07:38 AM truck: Fe is how ppl should feel, Fi is how they feel anyway. FE is hard to nail down because its more idealistic/misty in nature.
    Today 07:42 AM truck: ppl mistake Fe as being fake and manpulative cuz of its more intangible nature
    Today 07:45 AM zap: here's wat tcaud has 2 say about fe http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...sion-reception I recall ashton had Ni as emergence/homeorhesis, Si as homeostasis, Ti as colligation was it? cant recall d oters tho, altho it's all in d topic where he discusses with mattie
    Today 07:50 AM woofwoofl: hm, a "how people should feel"; with "feel" as being a dynamic entity moreso than a static entity, I would be tempted to cleave Fe down the middle and file that under +Fe, with the "how people do feel" being moreso -F overall; this would symmetrically handle the Delta NF moralization well as being +Fi
    Today 07:55 AM zap: agreed. result is aimless thus objective/sterile, so having it as more wat is works. OTOH, how to reconcile this with dynamic types with - functions dominant being positivist? ESE is -Fe dom, yet positivist. also, ESI philosophy is all about morality, but dey do accept ppl disliking things more, dats true... if we accept Gem as IEE, well it seems as if she's proud of accepting assholes, going by her sig about d devil.
    Today 07:57 AM zap: I recall Joblo questioned some time bax y dynamics gets r negativist even with a + sign as 1st... I vaguely recall some OLD xplanation 4 it, but tere's no way in hell I could ever track it down & unearth it, ask labcoat or mfckr or some1 like dat maybe.
    Today 07:59 AM zap: truck if dats ur opinion, check my newest post in d Free Absurd thread, tere's a quoted part tere about scoundrels you'd like which is a good xample of -Fi "hateful" sentiment IMO. ESI philosophy: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-Types-Gulenko also woof, I'd guess Fi is more long-term imposition on ppl than Fe cuz d former is static/heavy while later more fluid, adaptive thus restless, impatient when xtraverted.
    Today 08:02 AM zap: interestingly, if a type is static dey r d "heavy" part pf teir club. a-NTs, b-STs, g-SFs & d-NFs r all heavy according 2 wikisocion. so static adds weight, dynamic subtracts. a-NTs r d stereotypical xtreme theorizers so makes sense 4 em 2 b heavy. g-NTs value +Se so an idea is as good as d place it gets ya, thus we see d emphasis on a more fluid, adaptable intellect in gamma quadra, so dynamic-NT.
    Today 08:02 AM zap: interestingly, if a type is static dey r d "heavy" part pf teir club. a-NTs, b-STs, g-SFs & d-NFs r all heavy according 2 wikisocion. so static adds weight, dynamic subtracts. a-NTs r d stereotypical xtreme theorizers so makes sense 4 em 2 b heavy. g-NTs value +Se so an idea is as good as d place it gets ya, thus we see d emphasis on a more fluid, adaptable intellect in gamma quadra, so dynamic-NT.
    Today 08:04 AM woofwoofl: my brain space has become infested with a Counting Crows song due to looking at Adam Duritz, christ I'm trying my best, I swear
    Today 08:05 AM woofwoofl: hm, the heavies would all be HPcog or CDcog, the lights would consequentially be DAcog or VScog
    Today 08:06 AM truck: lol that reminds me of mario kart, bowser = heavyweight. peach = light. mario = medium
    Today 08:06 AM Radio: edited thread to hide adam duritz's stupid face
    Today 08:07 AM truck: lmao he does look like he enjoys the smell of farts
    Today 08:07 AM zap: for b-STs I think of em as heavy cuz dey r stereotypically way more "xtreme" then d everyday d-STs. b-STs r stereotypically involved in wars, revolutions etc which make HUGE practical differences. d-STs can work within systems 2 but dey r asking sensors who sorta just go along, xpecting a declaring intuitive 2 make sense of d whole 4 em (-Ne) & normalize em (+Ni)... declaring sensors find dat boring, dey think teir intuitives should suggest sth new & xciting (+Ne) 2 pave a new path (-Ni)
    Today 08:08 AM woofwoofl: I can't imagine Adam Duritz enjoying anything but his own misery, and his farting would be yet another vehicle to antagonize himself into some raw quantity of any feeling whatsoever that'll just have to pass for pleasure because nothing else exists
    Today 08:13 AM zap: democracy is more free then aristocracy. questions can b interpreted as challenges... thus, matters of long-term unelastic importance r not 2 b questioned in aristocracy; all teir statics r declarers. 1 can questions d dynamics which emanate from tese static... structures tho. c pod'lair as an xample, "DO NOT QUESTION OUR RIGID STRUCTURE U JUNGIAN FUNDAMENTALIST!"
    Today 08:15 AM zap: g-SFs get heavily involved in a milieu. SEE in d politics, while ESI is d type dat'd fight tooth & claw 2 protect a family heirloom. dey r like d ideal guard dog, kinda. ESE just inspires change but dis means dey don't have 2 commit as deeply 2 social structure... cuz it's gonna change.
    Today 08:36 AM zap: anyway time 2 finish up wat I was going on about earlier. SEI, d mediator, is Si-charged Fe or homeostasis-charged... ethicals change ppl, logicals changes xternals/inanimate things. So SiFe, mediator, dynamic ethics, tries 2 quickly smooth over things, calm things down, doesn't pass any lasting, harsh, obstructive judgements like d most direct version of Fi, namely -Fi would do.
    Today 08:40 AM zap: *sticks with zap despite conservative Te-dommery* seems static NFs require lasting personal investment. + = constructs, Fi = personal, etc. EII went 2 africa 2 personally oversee a well being built 2 help em, she dislikes large scale stuff, she sees it as 2 corrupt, messy etc. so dats y her approach is more compatible with light-ST/d-ST while an EIE doesnt bother as much with personal investments dey wanna take d world by storm like HitIer, Martin Luther King or tose cult-leaders like pod'lair,
    Today 08:44 AM zap: also, if we accept Gem as IEE... well, she'd then b an xception 2 d overall landscape/equilibrium dat I associate with holographic-panoramic. dat is, + functions being subjective/artificial would stick out more compared 2 - functions under natural i.e. non-constructed circumstances. in constructed settings process/+ types r god ofc tho...
    Today 08:48 AM zap: I imagine dynamic as d river, static as stubborn rocks in river, forcing d water flow 2 adapt around it. dynamic without static is 2 wild, no redirections or dams just pure undifferentiated flow... static without dynamic dry, sterile. so Fe tries 2 quickly impose on ppl, Fi is more long-term wat one should do. -Fi is quicker 2 judge being result so ESIs, being negativist + introvert + static + result + ethical is good at puting distance btween emselves & oters... comfortable with dismissing oter ppl,
    Today 08:50 AM zap: thus +Ne as 4th or according 2 me, "destructive function". +Fe is resolute & couples with creative when dominant so wants 2 quickly reprogram oters... Ni is good at seeing into ppl & where dey may end up so EIE is ofc selective 2, being an negativist aristocrat on some dramatic mission (prolly).
    Today 08:53 AM zap: DA cog types = programmer, CD cog types = puppets. an important difference between ESE & EII I guess is wat was written about EII & LSE being yielding types thus getting reimbursed, preferably with interest once teir patience wears thin. ESE is obstinate & promoter of ideas so just wants 2 push some idea on d world quickly, dont need character judgements 4 dat. +Ne is more novelty while +Se/Te-valuing is more profit so 2 ensure u get ur due in profits u gotta b more careful about who u r dealin with. FINAL!

    As I was taking a nice steamy shower and drinking the hell out of that fresh-from-the-showerhead hot water, a few things came to mind:

    - the J-bias is irritating re: standard terminology and is in need of a counterbalance. Elementalism for P and Non-Elementalism for J works great.
    - more semantics: Rectitude should exclusively cover all that which is Ji.
    - the mutual correction of peak-Duality is not necessarily optimal for everyone involved. A double-Asking or double-Declaring pairing may tend towards being more productive, more creative, more something; more investigation in Benefit and tac/nar rings is necessary.
    - I gotta post this because there's more stuff coming innn
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  6. #46
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default plugging focal/diffuse into this stuff is fun too

    This is incomplete and imperfect. My goal here is to coarsely reduce all points in the socionical multiverse to one-word definitions of "is" for the sake of portability.

    P Elementalism
    J Rationality

    Pe Identity
    Je Data
    Pi Balance
    Ji Rectitude

    Ne Inherence
    Se Contents

    Ni Concurrence
    Si Equilibrium


    I also like "Reality" for Se, but this usage will likely lead to a worse-than-useless shitstorm of drama.

    For Judicious/Reasonable and Decisive/Resolute Pe/Pi axes aka Ne/Si and Se/Ni respectively, any half of the axis enriches the other half.

    Ne/Si A homeostatic equilibrium, all that is sensate being in one boundless and all-expansive space; the boundaries would be subdivided by notions of the essential, the innate. If you hold your hand as perfectly still as possible, the micro-movements will now become evident; move your hand, make the movement itself have a sense of constance, a flow, and the micro-movements will no longer be visible. A rolling stone gathers no moss.

    Se/Ni A more compartmentalized take on the sensate, an awareness of contents that is based on the pieces moreso that a gestalt notion of pieces that blurs out the pieces themselves; all of this is more conducive to having the individual components move in some coordinated way. A road works at its best when all cars drive in the same direction at the same rate of speed; too much variance in speed and direction between cars will inevitably lead to collision, which will, at the very least, render the road and the cars momentarily useless.

    Going with plus/minus designations means I don't have to focus so hard on purifying the functions themselves; here goes:

    -Te Efficiency
    +Te Craftsmanship

    -Se Concreteness
    +Se Hyperrealism

    -E Accuracy
    +E Construction

    -I Clarity
    +I Adjustment


    Also worth pointing out is that, if subtypes indicate a fine-tuned placement on a quadra cycle continuum, then it would make sense for, say, Te-LSE, to have a less-pronounced +Te "charge" re: Te than the more strictly polarized +Te for Si-LSE.
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  7. #47
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default woofie EXPANDED MODEL W and official split from Gulenko's assignment of minus/plus to subdued fxns

    I had a condensed Model W that worked only with the Ego blocks. As there was a lot of information to work with, I went with a stripped-down model to get some shit done. I've since expanded the Model W to contain all eight functions for every type:

    . . . 1 . .2 . .3 . .4 . .5 . .6 . .7 . .8
    ILE +@Ne -#Ti -@Se +#Fi -@Si +#Fe +@Ni -#Te
    SEI +#Si -@Fe -#Ni +@Te -#Ne +@Ti +#Se -@Fi
    ESE -#Fe +@Si +#Te -@Ni +#Ti -@Ne -#Fi +@Se
    LII -@Ti +#Ne +@Fi -#Se +@Fe -#Si -@Te +#Ni

    EIE +#Fe -@Ni -#Te +@Si -#Ti +@Se +#Fi -@Ne
    LSI +@Ti -#Se -@Fi +#Ne -@Fe +#Ni +@Te -#Si
    SLE -@Se +#Ti +@Ne -#Fi +@Ni -#Fe -@Si +#Te
    IEI -#Ni +@Fe +#Si -@Te +#Se -@Ti -#Ne +@Fi

    SEE +@Se -#Fi -@Ne +#Ti -@Ni +#Te +@Si -#Fe
    ILI +#Ni -@Te -#Si +@Fe -#Se +@Fi +#Ne -@Ti
    LIE -#Te +@Ni +#Fe -@Si +#Fi -@Se -#Ti +@Ne
    ESI -@Fi +#Se +@Ti -#Ne +@Te -#Ni -@Fe +#Si

    LSE +#Te -@Si -#Fe +@Ni -#Fi +@Ne +#Ti -@Se
    EII +@Fi -#Ne -@Ti +#Se -@Te +#Si +@Fe -#Ni
    IEE -@Ne +#Fi +@Se -#Ti +@Si -#Te -@Ni +#Fe
    SLI -#Si +@Te +#Ni -@Fe +#Ne -@Fi -#Se +@Ti


    As Gulenko's assignments of minus/plus differed from Bukalov's, mine differ from Gulenko's for the subdued functions. I handle the subdued functions by dealing with what they are, not by a supposed shape of what doesn't exist. This is based on the strong/weak dichotomy, every function is polarized by its strongest counterpart because there's more of it. The resulting polarities are split strictly along the lines of the inert/contact dichotomy.

    The first class of dichotomies deal with coarse and universal diffuse/focal:

    irratnal oE xI . extrotim oP xJ . static .acc@ cre#
    rational oI xE . introtim oJ xP . dynamic acc# cre@


    The second class of dichotomies deal with coarse and universal minus/plus:

    intuitv .-T +F . ethical .-N +S . result .acc- cre+
    sensory .-F +T . logical .-S +N . process acc+ cre-


    Clubs now correspond to the following:

    NT -ST +NF . SF -NF +ST . NF -NT +SF . ST -SF +NT

    Going even further with strong/weak results in this:

    aristcrt strong -P +J . carefree strong oN xS . obstinat strong oT xF
    democrat strong -J +P . farsight strong oS xN . yielding strong oF xT


    Especially after the way I applied minus/plus, "valued" houses meaning in places where none should exist, so Expressed will be used to denote the former half of the valued/subdued dichotomy:

    narrator expressed -E +I
    taciturn expressed -I +E


    The implications in this last dichotomy are enormous and I'm gonna get a good night's sleep before I even think about going any further.
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  8. #48
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default eight more clubs, aspectonical enhancements, quadras revisited, and more

    - that Fe occupies a much larger territory than it's commonly allotted. As the other half of the Je territory not occupied by Te, this leaves all object dynamics that are implicit. I suspect this would be one half of the "reality" I oftentimes hear called to the witness stand from Beta NF peeps, and until now, it confused me, because it usually had very little in the realm of the evident or corporeal.

    - I mentioned that attitudes were elementalized into functions and types; this conversion would be Fe to Ne, which makes more sense than I previously considered; when an implicit object attribute ceases to be dynamic, it would become static. Nice.

    - it would totally rule to make club-sized groupings of the recently-simplified carefree/farsighted and yielding/obstinate dichotomies.

    - it would rule even more if I worked in the aspectonical dichotomy of detached/involved, which is split along NT for the former and SF for the latter:

    crf/yie .oNF xST .implicit diffuse explicit focal .ILE SEI LIE ESI
    far/yie .oSF xNT .involved diffuse detached focal .SLE IEI LSE EII
    crf/obs .oNT xSF .detached diffuse involved focal .EIE LSI IEE SLI
    far/obs .oST xNF .explicit diffuse implicit focal .ESE LII SEE ILI


    And hell, I can make groups of tactical/strategic and constructivist/emotivist as well:

    tac/cns .acNF crST .implicit accepting explicit creative .ILE ESE ILI ESI
    str/cns .acSF crNT .involved accepting detached creative .EIE SLE EII SLI
    tac/emt .acNT crSF .detached accepting involved creative .LSI IEI LSE IEE
    str/emt .acST crNF .explicit accepting implicit creative .SEI LII SEE LIE


    Let's complete the quadras this way too:

    Alpha .explicit fields . involved dynamics detached statics. implicit objects
    Beta . explicit statics. involved objects. detached fields . implicit dynamics
    Gamma .explicit objects. involved statics. detached dynamics implicit fields
    Delta .explicit dynamics involved fields . detached objects. implicit statics
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  9. #49
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default fully compatible with Model W and Model A

    I have laid out the functions, front to back, via three dichotomies that focus primarily on the "what" and the "how"; strong/weak, bold/cautious, and accepting/creative:

    base crea role vuln sugg mobi igno demo
    stro stro weak weak weak weak stro stro
    bold caut bold caut caut bold caut bold
    acce crea acce crea acce crea acce crea


    - this is much cleaner and allows for far more explanatory power than dimensionality of functions; if you're into that stuff anyways, the dimensionality values can now be found by starting with a value of 1 for each fxn and adding 1 for Bold and 2 for Strong. Conversely, an even sum will always be Bold, and a sum above 2.5 will always be Strong.

    - this deals with the 4th function without using an, in-every-meaning-of-the-term, retarded four-letter not-word that gets beaten to what should be death, but all that dies is clarity, sense, and then one more angel, ripping their wings off in frustration, only to burn alive during atmospheric entry until nothing is left but the echoing of pestilent idiocy from a planet that still uses that damned p-"word". As all creative fxns are areas to be tread upon lightly, that this specific one is simultaneously weak and cautious should say enough; if it still doesn't, let's throw in subdued.

    - notions of inherent valuation don't have to be paid any mind whatsoever.
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  10. #50
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default the first two woofian dichotomies have arrived

    Using expanded aspectonics, I have created the first two woofian dichotomies. Still absolutely raw at this point, and as far as I can tell, they're more coherent and sensible than the Reinin dichotomies they chop up:

    concrete . . SEI LII LSI SLE SEE LIE LSE SLI
    undercurrent ILE ESE EIE IEI ILI ESI EII IEE


    All concrete types have an explicit/evident base, and all undercurrent types have an implicit base.

     

    concrete .undercurrent
    sensory . intuitive
    logical . ethical
    strategic tactical
    emotivist constructivist


    visceral . SEI ESE EIE SLE SEE ESI EII SLI
    analytical ILE LII LSI IEI ILI LIE LSE IEE


    All visceral types have an involved/personal base, and all analytical types have a detached/clinical base.

     

    visceral . . . analytical
    sensory . . . .intuitive
    ethical . . . .logical
    strategic . . .tactical
    constructivist emotivist


    I went for one-word exactly-what-it-says-on-the-tin names; clean, concise, and ready to go.
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  11. #51
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default two more woofian dichotomies and even more unicode charts

    These next two woofian dichotomies are similar to the last two, but with the connotations nudged a bit, and a few of the types different as a result of different rationale being used to establish the dichotomies:

    methodical ILE SEI LSI SLE LIE ESI LSE SLI
    visionary .ESE LII EIE IEI SEE ILI EII IEE


    All methodical types have an explicit/evident focal fxn in the Ego block (strong and expressed/valued), and all visionary types have an implicit focal fxn in the Ego block.

     
    methodical visionary
    sensory . .intuitive
    carefree . farsighted
    yielding . obstinate


    hot .SEI ESE EIE LSI SEE ESI IEE SLI
    cool ILE LII SLE IEI ILI LIE LSE EII


    All hot types have an involved/personal focal fxn in their Ego block, and all cool types have a detached/clinical focal fxn in their Ego block.

     
    hot . . . cool
    sensory . intuitive
    carefree .farsighted
    obstinate yielding


    This time, carefree/farsighted and yielding/obstinate get chopped up.

    Alpha would be hot and visceral while dynamic and sensate, cool and analytical while static and intuitive, methodical while elemental, visionary while rational, concrete while introverted, and undercurrent while extraverted.

    . . ILE . . . . .SEI . . . . ESE . . . . .LII
    . .merry . . . .merry . . . merry . . . .merry
    .judicious . .judicious . judicious . .judicious
    .democratic . democratic .democratic . democratic
    undercurrent . concrete .undercurrent . concrete
    .analytical . .visceral . .visceral . .analytical
    .methodical . methodical .visionary . .visionary
    . . cool . . . . hot . . . . hot . . . . .cool
    . taciturn . . narrator . .narrator . . taciturn


    Beta would be hot while rational, cool while elemental, methodical and concrete while static and sensate, visionary and undercurrent while dynamic and intuitive, visceral while extraverted, and analytical while introverted.

    . . EIE . . . . .LSI . . . . .SLE . . . . .IEI
    . .merry . . . .merry . . . .merry . . . .merry
    . decisive . . decisive . . decisive . . decisive
    aristocratic aristocratic aristocratic aristocratic
    undercurrent . concrete . . concrete . undercurrent
    . visceral . .analytical . .visceral . .analytical
    .visionary . .methodical . methodical . visionary
    . . hot . . . . .hot . . . . .cool . . . . cool
    . taciturn . . narrator . . narrator . . taciturn


    Gamma would be hot and visceral while static and sensate, cool and analytical while dynamic and intuitive, methodical while rational, visionary while elemental, concrete while extraverted, and undercurrent while introverted.

    . .SEE . . . . ILI . . . . LIE . . . . ESI
    .serious . . serious . . serious . . serious
    .decisive . .decisive . .decisive . .decisive
    democratic .democratic .democratic .democratic
    .concrete .undercurrent .concrete .undercurrent
    .visceral . analytical .analytical . visceral
    visionary . visionary . methodical .methodical
    . .hot . . . . cool . . . .cool . . . .hot
    .taciturn . .narrator . .narrator . .taciturn


    Delta would be hot while elemental, cool while rational, methodical and concrete while dynamic and sensate, visionary and undercurrent while static and intuitive, visceral while introverted, and analytical while extraverted.

    . . LSE . . . . .EII . . . . .IEE . . . . .SLI
    . serious . . .serious . . .serious . . .serious
    .judicious . .judicious . .judicious . .judicious
    aristocratic aristocratic aristocratic aristocratic
    . concrete . undercurrent undercurrent . concrete
    .analytical . .visceral . .analytical . .visceral
    .methodical . visionary . .visionary . .methodical
    . . cool . . . . cool . . . . hot . . . . .hot
    . taciturn . . narrator . . narrator . . taciturn
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  12. #52
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default interpretation L and new notation

    Today 07:20 AM labcoat: look at the distribution of focal/diffuse over strong or valued function blocks
    Today 07:20 AM labcoat: for example obstinate means Focal F, Diffuse T in Valued blocks
    Today 07:21 AM labcoat: emotivist means Focal Serious, Diffuse Merry in Strong blocks
    Today 07:21 AM labcoat: etc
    Today 07:21 AM labcoat: you can find one of these for every long cycle dichotomy
    Today 07:36 AM Radio: "emotivist means Focal Serious, Diffuse Merry in Strong blocks" ooooo that's so cool.
    Today 07:36 AM Radio: cuz it makes sense
    Today 07:37 AM labcoat: it means there is a very clear demarcation between what a person takes seriously and what s/he doesn't
    Today 07:44 AM labcoat: or rather
    Today 07:44 AM labcoat: that what is serious to the person and what is serious to society at large is in alignment
    Today 07:45 AM labcoat: the first being focal, second being serious

    This has inspired me to, for one, expand my notation:

    M Fe/Ti Merry
    G Te/Fi serious/Grave
    U Ne/Si jUdicious
    V Se/Ni decisiVe


    In addition to none of those letters encroaching upon letters used elsewhere in socionical notation, the elementalist dichotomies fare particularly well, U and V are visual counterparts and opposites. Gonna condense expressed into exs and subdued into sbd, here goes:

    merry . exsM sbdG . . judicious exsU sbdV
    serious exsG sbdM . . decisive .exsV sbdU


    Gonna revisit a lot of dichotomies later. I gotta get some coffee, a shower, some food...
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  13. #53
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default expressed functions with full notation in benefit rings

    I've been curious about taciturn/narrator for ages, same with minus/plus charges, and how half of all relations have minus/plus charges in common, while the other half doesn't. Leaning towards same-charged fxns between types hinting at a sense of propulsion, and differently-charged fxns between types hinting at a sense of mutual correction, and this might carry on to diffuse/focal as well. Duality would be mutually corrective, and Benefit would be mutually propulsive, but asymmetrical. Activity would be propulsive on diffuse/focal and corrective on minus/plus. All I can say is that the field is wide open, and that there would be a huge number of favorable relations, some taking more work than others, and they would all have their specific advantages. Here is the entire taciturn cycle:

    +Ne +Ne . . +Fe +Fe +Fe +Fe . . +Se +Se +Se +Se . . +Te +Te +Te +Te . . +Ne +Ne
    -Si -Si αNT -Ti -Ti -Ti -Ti βNF -Ni -Ni -Ni -Ni γSF -Fi -Fi -Fi -Fi δST -Si -Si


    Here is the entire narrator cycle:

    -Ne -Ne . . -Fe -Fe -Fe -Fe . . -Se -Se -Se -Se . . -Te -Te -Te -Te . . -Ne -Ne
    +Si +Si αSF +Ti +Ti +Ti +Ti βST +Ni +Ni +Ni +Ni γNT +Fi +Fi +Fi +Fi δNF +Si +Si


    If focal/diffuse is added to the mix, then we'd be left with the rings of benefit. The first ring is the taciturn/result ring of recombination:

    +#Ne +#Ne . . +@Fe +@Fe +@Fe . . +#Se +#Se +#Se . . +@Te +@Te +@Te . . +#Ne +#Ne
    -#Si -#Si LII -@Ti -@Ti -@Ti IEI -#Ni -#Ni -#Ni ESI -@Fi -@Fi -@Fi SLI -#Si -#Si


    The second ring is the taciturn/process ring of combination:

    +@Ne +@Ne . . +#Fe +#Fe +#Fe . . +@Se +@Se +@Se . . +#Te +#Te +#Te . . +@Ne +@Ne
    -#Si -#Si ILE -#Ti -#Ti -#Ti EIE -@Ni -@Ni -@Ni SEE -#Fi -#Fi -#Fi LSE -@Si -@Si


    The third ring is the narrator/result ring of transformation:

    -@Ne -@Ne . . -#Fe -#Fe -#Fe . . -@Se -@Se -@Se . . -#Te -#Te -#Te . . -@Ne -@Ne
    +@Si +@Si ESE +#Ti +#Ti +#Ti SLE +@Ni +@Ni +@Ni LIE +#Fi +#Fi +#Fi IEE +@Si +@Si


    The fourth ring is the narrator/process ring of restoration:

    -#Ne -#Ne . . -@Fe -@Fe -@Fe . . -#Se -#Se -#Se . . -@Te -@Te -@Te . . -@Ne -@Ne
    +#Si +#Si SEI +@Ti +@Ti +@Ti LSI +#Ni +#Ni +#Ni ILI +@Fi +@Fi +@Fi EII +#Si +#Si
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  14. #54
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default more notation for groupings I've seen used around here

    tacS +Se/-Si taciturn sensation
    narS -Se/+Si narrative sensation

    tacN +Ne/-Ni taciturn intuition
    narN -Ne/+Ni narrative intuition

    tacT +Te/-Ti taciturn logic
    narT -Te/+Ti narrative logic

    tacF +Fe/-Fi taciturn ethics
    narF -Fe/+Fi narrative ethics

    tacU +Ne/-Si taciturn judiciousness
    narU -Ne/+Si narrative judiciousness

    tacV +Se/-Ni taciturn decisiveness
    narV -Se/+Ni narrative decisiveness

    tacM +Fe/-Ti taciturn merry
    narM -Fe/+Ti narrative merry

    tacG +Te/-Fi taciturn serious
    narG -Te/+Fi narrative serious
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  15. #55
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default no idea for a title but there is some cool stuff here and I need to make food now

    zap Today 07:26 AM +fi = constructing new relations? if so, do SLEs & ILIs dislike it when oters construct new relations cuz dey got it as polr? +Fi has also been connected 2 generosity & opposes +Ti which I guess means constructing a context dat makes sense... woof?
    FDG Today 07:28 AM How do ILIs have +Fi as polr?
    zap Today 07:29 AM cuz dey got -Te/+Ti as creative.
    FDG Today 07:29 AM I don't buy this "duality" thing
    FDG Today 07:29 AM they just have -Te as creative
    FDG Today 07:30 AM Anyway, I don't think ILIs may empirically dislike that kind of thing considering how their duals normally act
    FDG Today 07:30 AM ESFps being masters in building new relations
    zap Today 07:32 AM ok so maybe -Fi creative just means having more stringent standards when making new relations? -Fi valued means devalued Ne translated 2 model A. so SLE would b most against construction of new relations, maybe.... aristocratic constructivist resolute negativist.
    woofwoofl Today 07:33 AM oh god zap, combining the fxns in "-Te/+Ti" form creates a tremendous mess; maybs cool to look at on a wide scale like for groupings, but dear lord, not as a singular creative fxn
    woofwoofl Today 07:35 AM "-Te/+Ti" would be Decisive, but what's valued will not always be what's expressed
    woofwoofl Today 07:35 AM ILIs would have -Ti in the Id, SLEs would have +Ti in the Ego
    labcoat Today 07:35 AM woof
    woofwoofl Today 07:36 AM lab
    labcoat Today 07:36 AM instead of saying -Te/+Ti you can use taciturn/narrator to combine the two
    labcoat Today 07:36 AM i think -Te/+Ti is narrative T
    woofwoofl Today 07:36 AM HOLY SHIT LAB yesss
    silke Today 07:36 AM ILIs have -Fe as PoLR
    labcoat Today 07:37 AM can even use a notation like Tt, Tn, Nn, St
    FDG Today 07:37 AM Only two types in the whole socion have -Te so I can't see the usefulness in adding further specifications
    woofwoofl Today 07:38 AM yes silke, with the connotations of PolR, it would be -Fe, but as for what's actively expressed in the amounts it would be, would be +Fe
    labcoat Today 07:38 AM and yes, the taciturn/narrator functions have a quadra dichotomy associated with them that is opposite in P/J to what is normal
    labcoat Today 07:38 AM for example Tn is Resolute
    labcoat Today 07:38 AM Tt is Reasonable, Fn is Reasonable etc
    silke Today 07:40 AM the way i see it each type has a polr exactly where their conflict type places its base fxn
    woofwoofl Today 07:40 AM nice lab I currently notate Merry as M, Serious as G (grave), Judicious as U, and Decisive as V; that U and V would be similar in form yet opposite is really cool methinks
    silke Today 07:40 AM conflict type of ILI is ESE which has -Fe
    silke Today 07:40 AM with SLEs their polr is +Fi
    silke Today 07:41 AM which manifests as them being unable to pick out positives in people/situations like raisins in a roll the way EIIs do it

    A lot here to get to.

    First, the issue with the 4th fxn and the PolR, and the implicit meanings of both of those terms; in strict Model A, they can co-inhabit the same area. Attaching minus/plus to the pxns demands a split. PoLR is used to refer to a weakness, a blind spot, an area of incapacity, and therefore, the non-existence of functionality. For all intents and purposes, the problem is that the PoLR doesn't exist. Running with the ILI example, this would put the 4th function at +@Fe, which is the same as the 2nd function for IEI. The Fe furthest from +@Fe would be -#Fe, strong and valued as a base function for ESE.

    Second, the Bukalov functional assignments for Model B that were pointed to re: ILI and +Fi PoLR and -Te/+Ti creative. Ignoring the minus/plus signs does multiple things; Te/Ti creative is true, although only the former is expressed, Fi PoLR is beyond false, and the whole Model B reveals itself as a complete and total mess. Stripping away all of the fancy signs from Model W would leave you with Model A.

    Third, let's go crazy with this shit:

    M tacN narS
    G tacS narN
    U tacT narF
    V tacF narT

    Alpha involved narrative detached taciturn
    Beta .explicit narrative implicit taciturn
    Gamma involved taciturn detached narrative
    Delta explicit taciturn implicit narrative

    democratic . taciturn static, narrative dynamic
    aristocratic taciturn dynamic, narrative static
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  16. #56
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default immense chatbox goldmine of all time

    zap Yesterday 06:23 PM well I dont c y 8 valued fxns per quadra makes sense. e.g. d hedonism of alpha/beta can b differentiated into beta wanting emotional elation short-term (+Fe) meaning dey create (dis is keyword, cuz rational = artificial) drama, alpha sensorical elation short-term (+Si).
    woofwoofl Yesterday 06:25 PM and 4 VALUED fxns yess Ath
    woofwoofl Yesterday 06:30 PM and yes Ath, I have Alpha +Ne -Fe +Si -Ti, Beta -Se +Fe -Ni +Ti, Gamma +Se -Te +Ni -Fi, Delta -Ne +Te -Si +Fi
    zap Yesterday 06:39 PM cool woof. imo, 8 fxns per quadra dont make sense 4 various reasons. 1 is d minimum u need 2 make a type a feedback loop is 2 fxn ego block + 2 fxn superid block. it also dilutes things 2 add more fxns 2 every type, suddenly 1 NEEDS tese fxns 2 do basic shit which is wat model X criticized model A 4... also, 4 fxns per quadra makes each fxn more unique & also has more room 4 stuff. after all adding fxns doesnt xpand d empirical phenomena or wat a type is capable of it just adds more stuff on paper!
    zap Yesterday 06:45 PM woof if u disagree, feel free 2 criticize ofc. I did c 1 old attempt at justifying 16 fxns by tcaud, sth about +/- polarity & Ti & Te not being opposites but d + & - versions of Ti (or Te) being opposites but his xplanation seemed kinda arbitrary tbh
    woofwoofl Yesterday 06:53 PM and hm zap, socionics is full of those structures, in which two halves of one whole are simultaneously identical and opposite
    zap Yesterday 06:54 PM it also makes some sense of supervision... +Si (short-term homeostasis) opposes -Ni (long-term homeorhesis) ofc. dat way EIE wouldnt rly gain any benefit from SEI's ego block at all. it's also interesting how both +Si & +Fe r short-term dynamic involved fxns, I guess dey'r good at affecting oters 2 get
    woofwoofl Yesterday 06:54 PM that would hold true with +Ti and -Ti within Ti, Ti and Te within T, +Te and +Ti within +T, etc.
    zap Yesterday 06:55 PM +Fe (manipulative Fe any1?). I mean can u imagine bg & his "I'll just do drugs" attitude against some drama queen EIE? d EIE while producing elation in teir own way could end up just seeming like overdramatic assholes compared 2 bg....
    woofwoofl Yesterday 06:56 PM and yes zap when you look at what the signs of Model W suggests, what we'd be left with for supervision is the same exact signs for both types throughout the entirety of the model, but in a strictly disadvantageous position for the supervisee
    zap Yesterday 06:59 PM if Ti is unchanging & +Ti wants 2 lock ppl into + then.... hm, it'd force ppl 2 pick sides like tcaud tried (as I linked earlier). no wonder beta gets associated with cults... drumming up a bunch of drama & big talk (+Fe), making ppl sign on impulse so it can b used against em later. seems 2 b wats going on at pod'lair 2, actually. if u can make ppl give up teir freedom dis way, suddenly long-term homeorhesis (-Ni) is possible cuz u block off Ne/Si, yea? -Se & -Ni oppose +Ne & +Si, yea?
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:00 PM and hm, I got Tyra Banks as Fe-EIE, so there would be an excellent example
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:01 PM and yes, expressed but ultimately insufficient +Fe makes sense re: tcaud, drama, and the royal "we" that was just himself
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:01 PM and yesss, POD'LAIR
    zap Yesterday 07:05 PM another thing I dont think matches up with 8 fxns is d physiological part of type. se/ni dynamic negativists (ILI, EIE) r prolly d least relaxed types... now if LSI 4 xample had direct access 2 +Si as teir 2nd fxn dey'll remained xcitable in d dynamic negativist way (as +Si) but also have d Si tendency 2 relax well... yet still have d Se-ego unrelaxedness. ugh, fuck. it just turns into a mess, imo. I think it's better 2 just c 4-D Si as meaning carefree sensor.
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:05 PM and yeah, with no directional changes in a constant stream of flow, there would be but one way to go, which hmm, I got -Ni as the valued Beta fxn, but as far as expression goes, I've got +Ni in the LSI super-id; that, along with CD cog, would point to something incredibly linear and unidirectional; I got Judge Judy and Chris Langan as pretty obvz LSI
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:06 PM and I got -Si as a strong unvalued fxn for LSI, the original Model B was a complete mess imo
    zap Yesterday 07:08 PM "I've got +Ni in the LSI super-id;" dat seems odd. I recall silke mentioning tere's arguments in russia over wat interpretation of model B IS Correct with 1 saying if a dual has d + version of a fxn in ego teir dual has d - version in teir superid, is d quoted part based on dat, woof?
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:09 PM it was my working with the signs in whatever way made the most sense, which imo would be for the sign to be determined by raw strength of functionality of whatever the fxn's counterpart would be
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:11 PM also this would make duality as a form of mutual correction more evident, instead of it being looked at as some magical panacea
    zap Yesterday 07:11 PM carefree sensor = low energy sensor aka ISXx. a stable stream, might b seen as "still waters runs deep" by ENXx or high energy intuitive, who combine initiative with intuition. imo d still waters thing doesnt apply solely 2 Fi-egos as Jung would've have, I mean IEEs r often said 2 figure SLIs out & open em up.
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:13 PM yesss I gotta do more investigation on carefree versus farsighted, lab pointed out smth in regards to focal/diffuse and merry/serious that I have yet to investigate because I was running taciturn/narrator through all of it and applying it to quadras, odd aspectonics, etc.
    zap Yesterday 07:14 PM if u wanna follow d ISXx = 4-D Si thing... well, if we say delta is d most Si quadra (as is my approach) & delta = water, then Si = water, so still waters run deep worx. takes d form of its container, so harmonic. 4-D Ne or carefree Ne otoh is "airy", just like alpha. I mean u dont get more airy then careless/free intuition... ESXx places more emphasis on Se, aa comparatively "hard" fxn. if gamma is most Se then Se would b d "earth" fxn. yup, both Se & earth r rock hard.
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:16 PM beautiful I have Gamma as valuing the explicit/evident extraverted fxns, all surface would be strictly surface, all depth would be strictly depth, and I even did smth with tac/nar and dem/aristo
    zap Yesterday 07:17 PM I dont c how fire & 4-D Ni matches up tho. I guess sufficiently planned homeorhesis rly could send blasting off into some direction like a bullet. Ni is like d build up 2 d Se impact, I guess. I mean if u say "that guy is on fire" u r pretty much saying dey r rly focusing teir effort in some direction.
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:17 PM trying out democratic as taciturn static and narrative dynamic, aristocratic as narrative static and taciturn dynamic
    zap Yesterday 07:18 PM also I recall lungs in some paranoid topic of hers said Ni plans a path out 4 some1 2 follow, which could b compared 2 laying a gunpowder trail leading 2 a barrel of it then lighting it from afar...
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:20 PM hm, ESI would mean expressed -Ni, and part of me thinks that the worship of the notion of duality is largely wishful thinking, a homeostatic ILE pipe dream; good for some purposes, bad for others, and she went for IEI, which rules too
    zap Yesterday 07:20 PM in some old threads u can c ppl associating grudges with ESIs... it's kinda easy 2 c in case of Stratiyevskaya & her, as FDG put it, "bitching with my female friends about my ex husband" style. so if Se = hard & Fi = feelings, Se + Fi = hard feelings. poor ILE, each time dey ask "no hard feelings rite?" dey just get glared at.
    labcoat Yesterday 07:21 PM zomg
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:21 PM YES ahaha
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:21 PM yussss lab
    zap Yesterday 07:22 PM it makes lots of sense +Ti would b CD cog btw, with how dey stereotypically enforce teir understanding.... against oters will. re woof: xpressed -Ni? u said valued & xpressed r different, is xpressed synonymous with mental ring?
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:22 PM SLI and grudges is a huge thing too
    labcoat Yesterday 07:23 PM taciturn-democrat-rational etc
    zap Yesterday 07:23 PM yea I can imagine lol... srs ISXx.... constructivist. ugh. then again Im unsure whether dis delta ST guy I knew 4 a long time is LSE or SLI.
    labcoat Yesterday 07:23 PM look into those
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:23 PM expressed would be valued minus some of the connotations that wouldn't fit, the word "valued" supposes more than it should imo, and leads to socionical messes being made
    labcoat Yesterday 07:24 PM bed time, bye
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:24 PM night night lab
    zap Yesterday 07:24 PM night labcoat.
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:26 PM commonalities between ESI and SLI; sensate, introtim, serious, result, taciturn, maybs more
    zap Yesterday 07:29 PM true, I forgot about result adding rawness. anyway, finally, I think I understand d relation of result/process, objective/subjective & sterile/fertile (which is just a pet term of mine, no big deal). if objective/result zooms in on d objecte maximally as opposed 2 d "macro" focus of fields (which is subjective) then essentially 1 is "cutting off" d object from erything else... cutting it off from d macro, d ecosystem, puting it in a vacum. sterilizing it. cutting it off from a "greater" meaning, removing
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:30 PM what is the fertile/sterile dichotomy?
    zap Yesterday 07:31 PM it's not a big deal, actually. I just c objective as meaning sterile, subjective as meaning fertile. object in a sentence is done things 2, d subject actually acts so has more power. human imagination can penetrate & fertilize d purely objective it seems, thus d objective is more cold, srs, introverted.
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:34 PM oh god, brain is melting, sweet mother of god; maybe it's the lack of sleep, maybe we have hyperconcentrated the collective headspace with taciturn, such that the solving of one question results in the creation of three more, this is like taking on a hydra and I lack the capacity to do this helppp
    zap Yesterday 07:34 PM I mean, imagine a laboratory of some sort where erything has 2 b sterile. essentially it's a closed off space, cut off from all oter process. result/objective can break chains (processes) by introducing irregularities i.e. go into d - area of a fxn, which + fxns want 2 avoid. & yea saving dis chatlog.
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:36 PM the connotations are bleeding togetherrrr
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:36 PM this will take some time to digest and if you got this saved for chatlog, then hellz yeaahh
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:41 PM the wording makes sense, but therein lies the problem; it makes sense in ways that encroach upon other areas too easily, as "objective" would best be served as, hmm, a combination of "object" and "explicit" to notate the gestalt of Se and Te, and ohhh goddd what hell have we opened the gates to
    zap Yesterday 07:45 PM farsighted = either "hard" (ESXx) or "inciting" (INXx), carefree = either "airy" (ENXx) or "fluid" (ISXx). btw regarding grudges & ISXx... tere's a sinister variant of "still waters run deep": "Under still waters the devil swirls around" so I dont c d water element as dat "good/positive", it's certainly less so than air, it has a more sinister character... I was often afraid of dark deep water as a kid, like a monster would come out & devour me.
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:48 PM awe the 7 of Cups in the Thoth tarot is a visibly rotten variant of water
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:51 PM hm, all farsighted types lead off with +fxns
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:52 PM no, only when serious
    zap Yesterday 07:53 PM yea I asked u dat d oter day, recall? y r merry farsighted necessarily negativist. I c ESI as d ultimate negativist, ILE as ultimate positivist, anything inbtween would b "mixed", so perhaps d answer lies therein.
    woofwoofl Yesterday 07:59 PM the most effective way to bring us closer to an answer atm would be for me to get some sleep niiight
    zap Yesterday 07:59 PM also, btw, statics r either wholly negative or wholly positive... process is positive, as is positivism. result & negativism r negative. it's d dynamics who "manipulate" by introducing asymmetry. EXXjs prolly set d highest stakes & thus highest pay offs... esp Se/Ni 1s. meaning beta, being Ej quadra (according 2 me, HERO, olga) rly has a "backs 2 d wall, all or nothing" approach. ok, c ya woof.
    zap Yesterday 08:14 PM going 2 bed soon 2. gonna try posting more 2morrow, have spent all day reading n shit. need 2 get a suggestion in on d Getting back 2 basics thread 2. hm. +Se. Se that wishes 2 avoid d negative. Ashton had Se as contour (sp?) in an old thread. so +Se maintains d contour, no big changes.
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    trad metalz | (more coming)

  17. #57
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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  18. #58
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default static/dynamic > extraverted/intraverted reorganization of the entire socion, part I

    A chatbox convo inspired me to open up the old .txt file and start writing; somewhere along the line, I decided static/dynamic needed more portable notation. If it's fundamental to the system, it should be easy to carry; I went with • for "static" and > for "dynamic" due to visual implications and portability:

    P elemental N and S
    J rational T and F

    static Pe and Ji
    > dynamic Pi and Je


    From there, I decided to structure the socion in terms of static/dynamic instead of the more ambiguous extraverted/introverted. Going with the functions results in this:

    •N static intuition Ne
    •S static sensation Se
    •T static logic Ti
    •F static ethics Fi

    >N dynamic intuition Ni
    >S dynamic sensation Si
    >T dynamic logic Te
    >F dynamic ethics Fe


    So far, this checks out, and applied to types, this would make an entire mental/vital ring either •/static or >/dynamic. From here, it would be possible to club-block with aspectonics to create units large enough to represent entire Ego, Super-Ego, Super-Id, and Id blocks:

    det detached N and T
    inv involved S and F

    und undercurrent N and F
    exp explicit S and T


    From here, it would be possible to define quadras by what parts of the world are in constant flux, and what parts of the world are seen as fixed still-frames:

    α det• and inv>
    β exp• and und>
    γ inv• and det>
    d und• and exp>


    Going even further, two of three quadra-drawing dichotomies:

    mry •T and >F α and β
    srs •F and >T γ and d

    jud •N and >S α and d
    dec •S and >N β and γ


    A lot more on this coming later, especially for the final quadra-drawing dichotomy...
    Last edited by woofwoofl; 09-01-2014 at 08:10 PM. Reason: using • for static and > for dynamic (thank you MegaBalls for "•" as static symbol)
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  19. #59
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default Model W + energy typez

    Here is where I originally laid out Model W, and from that post to this one, expressed almost all of the dichotomies by what the Ego block was doing, and described two of the quadra-drawing dichotomies in strictly elemental terms; judicious is Ne/Si, decisive is Se/Ni; merry is Ti/Fe, serious is Fi/Te.

    A mental/conscious ring will be either completely static or completely dynamic, the vital/unconscious ring will be the other. Model A has every type as its own contrary. What happens if this gridlock isn't there?

    Here are all possible energy-type combinations:

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    ILE-SEI +@Ne -#Ti +#Si -@Fe elemental, judicious, merry, democratic, process, carefree, yielding
    ILE-ESE +@Ne -#Ti -#Fe +@Si extratim, judicious, merry, democratic, positivist, tactical, constructivist
    ILE-EIE +@Ne -#Ti +#Fe -@Ni extratim, intuitive, merry, process, taciturn, carefree, constructivist
    ILE-IEI +@Ne -#Ti -#Ni +@Fe elemental, intuitive, merry, positivist, taciturn, yielding, tactical
    ILE-ILI +@Ne -#Ti +#Ni -@Te elemental, intuitive, logical, democratic, process, tactical, constructivist
    ILE-LIE +@Ne -#Ti -#Te +@Ni extratim, intuitive, logical, democratic, positivist, carefree, yielding
    ILE-LSE +@Ne -#Ti +#Te -@Si extratim, logical, judicious, process, taciturn, yielding, tactical
    ILE-SLI +@Ne -#Ti -#Si +@Te elemental, logical, judicious, positivist, taciturn, carefree, constructivist

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    SEI-ILE +#Si -@Fe +@Ne -#Ti elemental, judicious, merry, democratic, process, carefree, yielding
    SEI-LII +#Si -@Fe -@Ti +#Ne introtim, judicious, merry, democratic, negativist, strategic, emotivist
    SEI-LSI +#Si -@Fe +@Ti -#Se introtim, sensate, merry, process, narrative, carefree, emotivist
    SEI-SLE +#Si -@Fe -@Se +#Ti elemental, sensate, merry, negativist, narrative, yielding, strategic
    SEI-SEE +#Si -@Fe +@Se -#Fi elemental, sensate, ethical, democratic, process, strategic, emotivist
    SEI-ESI +#Si -@Fe -@Fi +#Se introtim, sensate, ethical, democratic, negativist, carefree, yielding
    SEI-EII +#Si -@Fe +@Fi -#Ne introtim, ethical, judicious, process, narrative, yielding, strategic
    SEI-IEE +#Si -@Fe -@Ne +#Fi elemental, ethical, judicious, merry, negativist, narrative, carefree

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    ESE-ILE -#Fe +@Si +@Ne -#Ti extratim, judicious, merry, democratic, positivist, tactical, constructivist
    ESE-LII -#Fe +@Si -@Ti +#Ne rational, judicious, merry, democratic, result, farsighted, obstinate
    ESE-LSI -#Fe +@Si +@Ti -#Se rational, sensate, merry, positivist, narrative, obstinate, tactical
    ESE-SLE -#Fe +@Si -@Se +#Ti extratim, sensate, merry, result, narrative, farsighted, constructivist
    ESE-SEE -#Fe +@Si +@Se -#Fi extratim, sensate, ethical, democratic, positivist, farsighted, obstinate
    ESE-ESI -#Fe +@Si -@Fi +#Se rational, sensate, ethical, democratic, result, tactical, constructivist
    ESE-EII -#Fe +@Si +@Fi -#Ne rational, ethical, judicious, positivist, narrative, farsighted, constructivist
    ESE-IEE -#Fe +@Si -@Ne +#Fi extratim, ethical, judicious, result, narrative, obstinate, tactical

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    LII-SEI -@Ti +#Ne +#Si -@Fe introtim, judicious, merry, democratic, negativist, strategic, emotivist
    LII-ESE -@Ti +#Ne -#Fe +@Si rational, judicious, merry, democratic, result, farsighted, obstinate
    LII-EIE -@Ti +#Ne +#Fe -@Ni rational, intuitive, merry, negativist, taciturn, obstinate, strategic
    LII-IEI -@Ti +#Ne -#Ni +@Fe introtim, intuitive, merry, result, taciturn, farsighted, emotivist
    LII-ILI -@Ti +#Ne +#Ni -@Te introtim, intuitive, logical, democratic, negativist, farsighted, obstinate
    LII-LIE -@Ti +#Ne -#Te +@Ni rational, intuitive, logical, democratic, result, strategic, emotivist
    LII-LSE -@Ti +#Ne +#Te -@Si rational, logical, judicious, negativist, taciturn, farsighted, emotivist
    LII-SLI -@Ti +#Ne -#Si +@Te introtim, logical, judicious, result, taciturn, obstinate, strategic

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    EIE-ILE +#Fe -@Ni +@Ne -#Ti extratim, intuitive, merry, process, taciturn, carefree, constructivist
    EIE-LII +#Fe -@Ni -@Ti +#Ne rational, intuitive, merry, negativist, taciturn, obstinate, strategic
    EIE-LSI +#Fe -@Ni +@Ti -#Se rational, decisive, merry, aristocratic, process, carefree, obstinate
    EIE-SLE +#Fe -@Ni -@Se +#Ti extratim, decisive, merry, aristocratic, negativist, strategic, constructivist
    EIE-SEE +#Fe -@Ni +@Se -#Fi extratim, ethical, decisive, process, taciturn, obstinate, strategic
    EIE-ESI +#Fe -@Ni -@Fi +#Se rational, ethical, decisive, negativist, taciturn, carefree, constructivist
    EIE-EII +#Fe -@Ni +@Fi -#Ne rational, intuitive, ethical, aristocratic, process, strategic, constructivist
    EIE-IEE +#Fe -@Ni -@Ne +#Fi extratim, intuitive, ethical, aristocratic, negativist, carefree, obstinate

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    LSI-SEI +@Ti -#Se +#Si -@Fe introtim, sensate, merry, process, narrative, carefree, emotivist
    LSI-ESE +@Ti -#Se -#Fe +@Si rational, sensate, merry, positivist, narrative, obstinate, tactical
    LSI-EIE +@Ti -#Se +#Fe +@Ni rational, decisive, merry, aristocratic, process, carefree, obstinate
    LSI-IEI +@Ti -#Se -#Ni +@Fe introtim, decisive, merry, aristocratic, positivist, tactical, emotivist
    LSI-ILI +@Ti -#Se +#Ni +@Te introtim, logical, decisive, process, narrative, obstinate, tactical
    LSI-LIE +@Ti -#Se -#Te +@Ni rational, logical, decisive, positivist, narrative, carefree, emotivist
    LSI-LSE +@Ti -#Se +#Te +@Si rational, sensate, logical, aristocratic, process, tactical, emotivist
    LSI-SLI +@Ti -#Se -#Si +@Te introtim, sensate, logical, aristocratic, positivist, carefree, obstinate

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    SLE-SEI -@Se +#Ti +#Si -@Fe elemental, sensate, merry, negativist, narrative, yielding, strategic
    SLE-ESE -@Se +#Ti -#Fe +@Si extratim, sensate, merry, result, narrative, farsighted, constructivist
    SLE-EIE -@Se +#Ti +#Fe -@Ni extratim, decisive, merry, aristocratic, negativist, strategic, constructivist
    SLE-IEI -@Se +#Ti -#Ni +@Fe elemental, decisive, merry, aristocratic, result, farsighted, yielding
    SLE-ILI -@Se +#Ti +#Ni -@Te elemental, logical, decisive, negativist, narrative, farsighted, constructivist
    SLE-LIE -@Se +#Ti -#Te +@Ni extratim, logical, decisive, result, narrative, yielding, strategic
    SLE-LSE -@Se +#Ti +#Te -@Si extratim, sensate, logical, aristocratic, negativist, farsighted, yielding
    SLE-SLI -@Se +#Ti -#Si +#Te elemental, sensate, logical, aristocratic, result, strategic, constructivist

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    IEI-ILE -#Ni +@Fe +@Ne -#Ti elemental, intuitive, merry, positivist, taciturn, yielding, tactical
    IEI-LII -#Ni +@Fe -@Ti +#Ne introtim, intuitive, merry, result, taciturn, farsighted, emotivist
    IEI-LSI -#Ni +@Fe +@Ti -#Se introtim, decisive, merry, aristocratic, positivist, tactical, emotivist
    IEI-SLE -#Ni +@Fe -@Se +#Ti elemental, decisive, merry, aristocratic, result, farsighted, yielding
    IEI-SEE -#Ni +@Fe +@Se -#Fi elemental, ethical, decisive, positivist, taciturn, farsighted, emotivist
    IEI-ESI -#Ni +@Fe -@Fi +#Se introtim, ethical, decisive, result, taciturn, yielding, tactical
    IEI-EII -#Ni +@Fe +@Fi -#Ne introtim, intuitive, ethical, aristocratic, positivist, farsighted, yielding
    IEI-IEE -#Ni +@Fe -@Ne +#Fi elemental, intuitive, ethical, aristocratic, result, tactical, emotivist

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    SEE-SEI +@Se -#Fi +#Si -@Fe elemental, sensate, ethical, democratic, process, strategic, emotivist
    SEE-ESE +@Se -#Fi -#Fe +@Si extratim, sensate, ethical, democratic, positivist, farsighted, obstinate
    SEE-EIE +@Se -#Fi +#Fe -@Ni extratim, ethical, decisive, process, taciturn, obstinate, strategic
    SEE-IEI +@Se -#Fi -#Ni +@Fe elemental, ethical, decisive, positivist, taciturn, farsighted, emotivist
    SEE-ILI +@Se -#Fi +#Ni -@Te elemental, decisive, serious, democratic, process, farsighted, obstinate
    SEE-LIE +@Se -#Fi -#Te +@Ni extratim, decisive, serious, democratic, positivist, strategic, emotivist
    SEE-LSE +@Se -#Fi +#Te -@Si extratim, sensate, serious, process, taciturn, farsighted, emotivist
    SEE-SLI +@Se -#Fi -#Si +@Te elemental, sensate, serious, positivist, taciturn, obstinate, strategic

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    ILI-ILE +#Ni -@Te +@Ne -#Ti elemental, intuitive, logical, democratic, process, tactical, constructivist
    ILI-LII +#Ni -@Te -@Ti +#Ne introtim, intuitive, logical, democratic, negativist, farsighted, obstinate
    ILI-LSI +#Ni -@Te +@Ti -#Se introtim, logical, decisive, process, narrative, obstinate, tactical
    ILI-SLE +#Ni -@Te -@Se +#Ti elemental, logical, decisive, negativist, narrative, farsighted, constructivist
    ILI-SEE +#Ni -@Te +@Se -#Fi elemental, decisive, serious, democratic, process, farsighted, obstinate
    ILI-ESI +#Ni -@Te -@Fi +#Se introtim, decisive, serious, democratic, negativist, tactical, constructivist
    ILI-EII +#Ni -@Te +@Fi -#Ne introtim, intuitive, serious, process, narrative, farsighted, constructivist
    ILI-IEE +#Ni -@Te -@Ne +#Fi elemental, intuitive, serious, negativist, narrative, obstinate, tactical

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    LIE-ILE -#Te +@Ni +@Ne -#Ti extratim, intuitive, logical, democratic, positivist, carefree, yielding
    LIE-LII -#Te +@Ni -@Ti +#Ne rational, intuitive, logical, democratic, result, strategic, emotivist
    LIE-LSI -#Te +@Ni +@Ti -#Se rational, logical, decisive, positivist, narrative, carefree, emotivist
    LIE-SLE -#Te +@Ni -@Se +#Ti extratim, logical, decisive, result, narrative, yielding, strategic
    LIE-SEE -#Te +@Ni +@Se -#Fi extratim, decisive, serious, democratic, positivist, strategic, emotivist
    LIE-ESI -#Te +@Ni -@Fi +#Se rational, decisive, serious, democratic, result, carefree, yielding
    LIE-EII -#Te +@Ni +@Fi -#Ne rational, intuitive, serious, positivist, narrative, yielding, strategic
    LIE-IEE -#Te +@Ni -@Ne +#Fi extratim, intuitive, serious, result, narrative, carefree, emotivist

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    ESI-SEI -@Fi +#Se +#Si -@Fe introtim, sensate, ethical, democratic, negativist, carefree, yielding
    ESI-ESE -@Fi +#Se -#Fe +@Si rational, sensate, ethical, democratic, result, tactical, constructivist
    ESI-EIE -@Fi +#Se +#Fe -@Ni rational, ethical, decisive, negativist, taciturn, carefree, constructivist
    ESI-IEI -@Fi +#Se -#Ni +@Fe introtim, ethical, decisive, result, taciturn, yielding, tactical
    ESI-ILI -@Fi +#Se +#Ni -@Te introtim, decisive, serious, democratic, negativist, tactical, constructivist
    ESI-LIE -@Fi +#Se -#Te +@Ni rational, decisive, serious, democratic, result, carefree, yielding
    ESI-LSE -@Fi +#Se +#Te -@Si rational, sensate, serious, negativist, taciturn, yielding, tactical
    ESI-SLI -@Fi +#Se -#Si +@Te introtim, sensate, serious, result, taciturn, carefree, constructivist

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    LSE-ILE +#Te -@Si +@Ne -#Ti extratim, logical, judicious, process, taciturn, yielding, tactical
    LSE-LII +#Te -@Si -@Ti +#Ne rational, logical, judicious, negativist, taciturn, farsighted, emotivist
    LSE-LSI +#Te -@Si +@Ti -#Se rational, sensate, logical, aristocratic, process, tactical, emotivist
    LSE-SLE +#Te -@Si -@Se +#Ti extratim, sensate, logical, aristocratic, negativist, farsighted, yielding
    LSE-SEE +#Te -@Si +@Se -#Fi extratim, sensate, serious, process, taciturn, farsighted, emotivist
    LSE-ESI +#Te -@Si -@Fi +#Se rational, sensate, serious, negativist, taciturn, yielding, tactical
    LSE-EII +#Te -@Si +@Fi -#Ne rational, judicious, serious, aristocratic, process, farsighted, yielding
    LSE-IEE +#Te -@Si -@Ne +#Fi extratim, judicious, serious, aristocratic, negativist, tactical, emotivist

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    EII-SEI +@Fi -#Ne +#Si -@Fe introtim, ethical, judicious, process, narrative, yielding, strategic
    EII-ESE +@Fi -#Ne -#Fe +@Si rational, ethical, judicious, positivist, narrative, farsighted, constructivist
    EII-EIE +@Fi -#Ne +#Fe -@Ni rational, intuitive, ethical, aristocratic, process, strategic, constructivist
    EII-IEI +@Fi -#Ne -#Ni +@Fe introtim, intuitive, ethical, aristocratic, positivist, farsighted, yielding
    EII-ILI +@Fi -#Ne +#Ni -@Te introtim, intuitive, serious, process, narrative, farsighted, constructivist
    EII-LIE +@Fi -#Ne -#Te +@Ni rational, intuitive, serious, positivist, narrative, yielding, strategic
    EII-LSE +@Fi -#Ne +#Te -@Si rational, judicious, serious, aristocratic, process, farsighted, yielding
    EII-SLI +@Fi -#Ne -#Si +@Te introtim, judicious, serious, aristocratic, positivist, strategic, constructivist

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    IEE-SEI -@Ne +#Fi +#Si -@Fe elemental, ethical, judicious, merry, negativist, narrative, carefree
    IEE-ESE -@Ne +#Fi -#Fe +@Si extratim, ethical, judicious, result, narrative, obstinate, tactical
    IEE-EIE -@Ne +#Fi +#Fe -@Ni extratim, intuitive, ethical, aristocratic, negativist, carefree, obstinate
    IEE-IEI -@Ne +#Fi -#Ni +@Fe elemental, intuitive, ethical, aristocratic, result, tactical, emotivist
    IEE-ILI -@Ne +#Fi +#Ni -@Te elemental, intuitive, serious, negativist, narrative, obstinate, tactical
    IEE-LIE -@Ne +#Fi -#Te +@Ni extratim, intuitive, serious, result, narrative, carefree, emotivist
    IEE-LSE -@Ne +#Fi +#Te -@Si extratim, judicious, serious, aristocratic, negativist, tactical, emotivist
    IEE-SLI -@Ne +#Fi -#Si +@Te elemental, judicious, serious, aristocratic, result, carefree, obstinate

    tim nrg accc crec accv crev
    SLI-ILE -#Si +@Te +@Ne -#Ti elemental, logical, judicious, positivist, taciturn, carefree, constructivist
    SLI-LII -#Si +@Te -@Ti +#Ne introtim, logical, judicious, result, taciturn, obstinate, strategic
    SLI-LSI -#Si +@Te +@Ti -#Se introtim, sensate, logical, aristocratic, positivist, carefree, obstinate
    SLI-SLE -#Si +@Te -@Se +#Ti elemental, sensate, logical, aristocratic, result, strategic, constructivist
    SLI-SEE -#Si +@Te +@Se -#Fi elemental, sensate, serious, positivist, taciturn, obstinate, strategic
    SLI-ESI -#Si +@Te -@Fi +#Se introtim, sensate, serious, result, taciturn, carefree, constructivist
    SLI-EII -#Si +@Te +@Fi -#Ne introtim, judicious, serious, aristocratic, positivist, strategic, constructivist
    SLI-IEE -#Si +@Te -@Ne +#Fi elemental, judicious, serious, aristocratic, result, carefree, obstinate


    TIM is the strong part of the mental ring. Recent material points towards types having up to six of the samely-charged functions; since the weak functions' minus/plus assignments have been externally inconsistent amongst socionists, I have weak function minus/plus as not being inherent to type.

    NRG is the strong part of the vital ring. I am doing away with any suppositions about the vital ring that are borne from what's going on in the mental ring. Self-contrary relations are the standard expectation in Model A, which re-enforce P/J, N/S, T/F, democratic/aristocratic, process/result, tactical/strategic, and emotivist/constructivist.
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  20. #60
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default a is for taciturn, k is for narrator; 3 x 3

    After reviewing the erotic styles and the benefit rings, taciturn/narrator has a sort of dragon/tiger thing that cross-cuts the four main groupings. Much, most, or all material written on erotic styles as of now, is more accurate for the merry quadras, where all intuitives are taciturn, and all sensors are narrative; serious quadras are more complex.

    democratic •a, >k taciturn static, narrative dynamic
    aristocratic •k, >a taciturn dynamic, narrative static

    merry aN, kS taciturn intuition, narrative sensation
    serious aS, kN taciturn sensation, narrative intuition

    judicious aT, kF taciturn logic, narrative ethics
    decisive aF, kT taciturn ethics, narrative logic


    I have three major triads of dichotomies in increasing order of depth. One of them draws temperaments; static/dynamic, E/I, and elemental/rational. One of them draws quadras; judicious/decisive, merry/serious, and democratic/aristocratic. One of them handles energy; taciturn/narrator, process/result, and positivist/negativist. All unmentioned Jungian dichotomies come into much sharper relief once something about those nine is known. I have no idea what to do with the unmentioned Reinin dichotomies.
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  21. #61
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default also considering "maintenance" for taciturn sensation

    In this thread, I cleaned up and redrew Model B with taciturn/narrator. In the previous post here, I pointed to tac/nar having a sense of omniscence, universiality, and obligation to responsiveness/counterattack on one side (taciturn), and a sense of self-derived drive to make an imprint on the surrounding environment on the other side (narrator).

    I have +J as code of conduct, and the purest example would be +Fe, which is dynamic and taciturn. A truce. Abstaining from kicking the opponent in the balls during a boxing match. +Te, also dynamic and taciturn, is a procedural code of conduct (+Te, like +Fe, is also process while focal and base). Optimization. Doing things "the right way".

    +Je always comes with -Pi, also dynamic and taciturn. -Pi is result while base; a passive sense of what will happen, as opposed to the more deliberate +Pi (narrative, also process when base). The rawest form of -Pi would be -Ni. A premonition from nowhere. An insight as clear as it is unexplainable. At least -Si would be apparent in the rattling of a weathered car engine, the gradual and increasing loosening of a bolt, an evident sense of continual entropy; in the clock of the socion, this -Pi entropy always leads directly to a +Pe democratic equilibrium.

    +Ji is idealism; narrative rectitude, process when base. Can't think anymore, time for me to go to sleep.
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  22. #62
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default which also shines a new light on the "-Se as aggression" thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Elina View Post
    I'm trying to compare this with the aspectonics link to see how you came up with it, and I can't figure it out. Can you explain exactly how at least one quadra, as an example, was worked out?
    Also, what exactly is meant by "explicit" and "implicit"?

    mBD answered in chatbox so I'm posting it here as a note to self

    miss BabyDoll
    :
    umm it's easy tbh - he just went by quadra values Alpha: explicit fields (Si, Ti), implicit objects (Ne, Fe)Beta: explicit statics (Se, Ti), implicit dynamics ( Ni, Fe)Gamma: explicit objects (Se, Te), implicit fields (Fi, Ni)Delta: explicit dynamics (Si, Te), implicit statics (Fi, Ne)

    miss BabyDoll
    :
    also: He grouped alpha & gamma by fields/objects and beta & delta by statics/dynamics because of the better functional and visual grouping of shared explicit/implicit properties of im aspects in each quadra.

    miss BabyDoll
    :
    ooh yeah explicit- directly sensible content of reality (Se, Te, Si, Ti)implicit- indirectly perceivable content of reality (Ne, Fe, Ni, Fi)
    yesss

    All of this would make explicit +E functionality the most emperical. +Te and +Se, both of which are taciturn. -Te and -Se are prone to extrapolations guided by their respective +I counterparts, +Ni and +Ti; all of these are narrative.

    "Directly sensible" would cover almost all of the explicit elements cleanly, possibly excluding what goes on in the -Ti half of Alpha's taciturn/detached block, and would still be a great descriptor. Concrete is the term I use now.
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  23. #63
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default swap the Ss with Ns and see what you find :p

    Functionality may be at its purest and most exacting while focal, but it's at its most expansive and evident while diffuse, so I'll go forward with diffuse functionality, starting with positivist/negativist.

    Minus functionality is an educated guess, an extrapolation, an extension into the unknown at the cost of the certitude and concreteness of + functionality. When - functionality is diffuse, negativism prevails. A look at a symmetrically-expected "other side". An awareness/expectation of what's needed to fill the void, based on its expected outline. Any certitude that comes under negativism has truly passed the trial-by-fire (+#). Certitude is the expected norm under positivism (+@), where estimates are more scarce and precise (-#).

    Narrative sensation (merry) is more forwardly assertive, asking sensation (serious) is more about indestructibility, and all sensation is diffuse for extrotims. As usual, and as expected, the aristocratic quadras have the clearest delineations, with SLE being the most aggressive configuration (-@Se), and LSE being the most corporeally omniscent (-@Si).
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  24. #64
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default clubs -> quadras -> energy groups -> unknown

    When -/+ signs are involved, the term "PoLR" is no longer interchangeable with "4th/Vulnerable Function".

    PoLR = conflictor's base

    What's weakest and most painful will be the PoLR, what exists as a conscious and auxiliary creative function is the 4th/vulnerable function, whose sign will be governed by the elements in the ego block (Se ego means conscious -Fi/+Ti, F ego means conscious -N/+S, etc.).

    PoLR and conflictor's base will always be the same on asking/narrative, focal/diffuse, and static/dynamic, implying active mutual obstruction in double-narrative relations, or an ever-brewing cold war in double-asking relations.

    More on this later, but I have the energy groups aka benefit rings second in importance only to quadras; energy groups transcend the informational/ideological insularity of the quadras, much like how the quadras transcend the communicative difficulties in the clubs.
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  25. #65
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
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    Default

    For a Ti PoLR you sure like organizing information and making charts. If you ever change your mind and decide you're LII after all, we'd love to have you.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  26. #66
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    Default

    I can't tell if I'm reading the barely coherent ramblings of a madman or a stark work of genius. But I suppose that applies to most things written about socionics.

    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    I have three major triads of dichotomies in increasing order of depth. One of them draws temperaments; static/dynamic, E/I, and elemental/rational. One of them draws quadras; judicious/decisive, merry/serious, and democratic/aristocratic. One of them handles energy; taciturn/narrator, process/result, and positivist/negativist. All unmentioned Jungian dichotomies come into much sharper relief once something about those nine is known. I have no idea what to do with the unmentioned Reinin dichotomies.
    The first two triads I can understand and fully support. However, I have a question regarding your last triad. Did you perhaps mean to include introversion/extraversion instead of positivist/negativist? Because then it would draw the benefit rings. As it stands it could be used to imply benefit rings, supervision rings or something else entirely, i.e. asking/declaring together with pos/neg implies rational/irrational.

  27. #67
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default ye olde socionomicon, volume LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by nefnaf View Post
    I can't tell if I'm reading the barely coherent ramblings of a madman or a stark work of genius. But I suppose that applies to most things written about socionics.
    probably both *bows*

    Quote Originally Posted by nefnaf View Post
    The first two triads I can understand and fully support. However, I have a question regarding your last triad. Did you perhaps mean to include introversion/extraversion instead of positivist/negativist? Because then it would draw the benefit rings. As it stands it could be used to imply benefit rings, supervision rings or something else entirely, i.e. asking/declaring together with pos/neg implies rational/irrational.
    Asking/narrative, process/result, extro/intro; any two of these three will draw the benefit rings, but the benefit rings themselves are but one of three groupings made from any two deep dichotomies; other two groupings are the cog styles (process/result with positivist/negativist, implying static/dynamic) and an unnamed grouping (asking/declaring with positivist/negativist, implying elemental/rational) that has been hinted at ever since the creation of Model B in the 1990s:

    asking/positivist . .ILE, IEI, SEE, SLI
    asking/negativist . .LII, EIE, ESI, LSE
    narrative/positivist ESE, LSI, LIE, EII
    narrative/negativist SEI, SLE, ILI, IEE


    Asking/narrative is the key that unlocks Model B. Model A models the conscious as either wholly static or wholly dynamic (with the unconscious being the other), Model B models the conscious as either wholly asking or wholly narrative (once again, with the unconscious being the other). Using the Model B, any given type will share its base function with one of its in-ring neighbors (LIE shares base narrative logics with LSI), and share its creative function with its other in-ring neighbor (LIE shares creative narrative intuition with EII). Semi-recent chatbox conversations on IM/EM typings have gravitated towards EM types usually sharing a base with their IM type (ILE-IEI, SEE-SLI) if Model B assignments are used. Another popular option for IM/EM is based on the benefit rings (IEI-LII and LII-IEI being most noteworthy).

    I've got a lot to work out with the Model A vital ring first. Model A mental/conscious elements are either diffuse/static/accepting, diffuse/dynamic/creative, focal/static/creative, or focal/dynamic/accepting. Model A vital/unconscious elements, however, are diffuse/static/creating, diffuse/dynamic/accepting, focal/static/accepting, or focal/dynamic/creative. I mentioned Model A implied self-extinguishment, which is the less-than-half of the story told by accepting/producing. Focal/diffuse (and/or dimensionality of functions) speaks of self-quasi-identity. At the very least, this means the goings-on of anyone's unconscious will be strictly different from what takes place in anyone's consciousness.
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  28. #68
    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Default FINAL MODEL W

    . . . . . 1 . . . . 2 . . . . . 3 . . . . 4 . . . . . . 5 . . . . 6 . . . . . 7 . . . . 8
    ILE . +@Ne/-#Ni -#Ti/+@Te . +@Se/-#Si -#Fi/+@Fe . . +@Si/-#Se -#Fe/+@Fi . +@Ni/-#Ne -#Te/+@Ti
    SEI . +#Si/-@Se -@Fe/+#Fi . +#Ni/-@Ne -@Te/+#Ti . . +#Ne/-@Ni -@Ti/+#Te . +#Se/-@Si -@Fi/+#Fe
    ESE . -#Fe/+@Fi +@Si/-#Se . -#Te/+@Ti +@Ni/-#Ne . . -#Ti/+@Te +@Ne/-#Ni . -#Fi/+@Fe +@Se/-#Si
    LII . -@Ti/+#Te +#Ne/-@Ni . -@Fi/+#Fe +#Se/-@Si . . -@Fe/+#Fi +#Si/-@Se . -@Te/+#Ti +#Ni/-@Ne

    EIE . +#Fe/-@Fi -@Ni/+#Ne . +#Te/-@Ti -@Si/+#Se . . +#Ti/-@Te -@Se/+#Si . +#Fi/-@Fe -@Ne/+#Ni
    LSI . +@Ti/-#Te -#Se/+@Si . +@Fi/-#Fe -#Ne/+@Ni . . +@Fe/-#Fi -#Ni/+@Ne . +@Te/-#Ti -#Si/+@Se
    SLE . -@Se/+#Si +#Ti/-@Te . -@Ne/+#Ni +#Fi/-@Fe . . -@Ni/+#Ne +#Fi/-@Fe . -@Si/+#Se +#Ti/+@Te
    IEI . -#Ni/+@Ne +@Fe/-#Fi . -#Si/+@Se +@Te/-#Ti . . -#Se/+@Si +@Ti/-#Te . -#Ne/+@Ni +@Fi/-#Fe

    SEE . +@Se/-#Si -#Fi/+@Fe . +@Ne/-#Ni -#Ti/+@Te . . +@Ni/-#Ne -#Te/+@Ti . +@Si/-#Se -#Fe/+@Fi
    ILI . +#Ni/-@Ne -@Te/+#Ti . +#Si/-@Se -@Fe/+#Fi . . +#Se/-@Si -@Fi/+#Fe . +#Ne/-@Ni -@Ti/+#Te
    LIE . -#Te/+@Ti +@Ni/-#Ne . -#Fe/+@Fi +@Si/-#Se . . -#Fe/+@Fi +@Si/-#Se . -#Te/+@Ti +@Ni/-#Ne
    ESI . -@Fi/+#Fe +#Se/-@Si . -@Ti/+#Te +#Ne/-@Ni . . -@Te/+#Ti +#Ni/-@Ne . -@Fi/+#Fe +#Se/-@Si

    LSE . +#Te/-@Ti -@Si/+#Se . +#Fe/-@Fi -@Ni/+#Ne . . +#Fi/-@Fe -@Ne/+#Ni . +#Ti/-@Te -@Se/+#Si
    EII . +@Fi/-#Fe -#Ne/+@Ni . +@Ti/-#Te -#Se/+@Si . . +@Te/-#Ti -#Si/+@Se . +@Fe/-#Fi -#Ni/+@Ne
    IEE . -@Ne/+#Ni +#Fi/-@Fe . -@Se/+#Si +#Ti/-@Te . . -@Si/+#Se +#Ti/+@Te . -@Ni/+#Ne +#Fi/-@Fe
    SLI . -#Si/+@Se +@Te/-#Ti . -#Ni/+@Ne +@Fe/-#Fi . . -#Ne/+@Ni +@Fi/-#Fe . -#Se/+@Si +@Ti/-#Te



    Main Ego

    ILE +@Ne -#Ti . . EIE +#Fe -@Ni . . SEE +@Se -#Fi . . LSE +#Te -@Si
    SEI +#Si -@Fe . . LSI +@Ti -#Se . . ILI +#Ni -@Te . . EII +@Fi -#Ne
    ESE -#Fe +@Si . . SLE -@Se +#Ti . . LIE -#Te +@Ni . . IEE -@Ne +#Fi
    LII -@Ti +#Ne . . IEI -#Ni +@Fe . . ESI -@Fi +#Se . . SLI -#Si +@Te


    Main view of life.


    Main Super-Ego

    ILE +@Se -#Fi . . EIE +#Te -@Si . . SEE +@Ne -#Ti . . LSE +#Fe -@Ni
    SEI +#Ni -@Te . . LSI +@Fi -#Ne . . ILI +#Si -@Fe . . EII +@Ti -#Se
    ESE -#Te +@Ni . . SLE -@Ne +#Fi . . LIE -#Fe +@Si . . IEE -@Se +#Ti
    LII -@Fi +#Se . . IEI -#Si +@Te . . ESI -@Ti +#Ne . . SLI -#Ni +@Fe


    An unachievable ideal to look up to. Any type's Super-Ego block will be completely identical to their Super Ego type's Ego block. Aside from Identity, this is the simplest and most symmetrical relation, even more simple and symmetrical than the complementary relations of Duality (focal/diffuse mismatch: mutually corrective) and Activity (accepting/producing mismatch: energetic).


    Alter-Ego

    ILE -#Ni +@Te . . EIE -@Fi +#Ne . . SEE -#Si +@Fe . . LSE -@Ti +#Se
    SEI -@Se +#Fi . . LSI -#Te +@Si . . ILI -@Ne +#Ti . . EII -#Fe +@Ni
    ESE +@Fi -#Se . . SLE +#Si -@Te . . LIE +@Ti -#Ne . . IEE +#Ni -@Fe
    LII +#Te -@Ni . . IEI +@Ne -#Fi . . ESI +#Fe -@Si . . SLI +@Se -#Ti


    Secondary view of life, brought on by a change in energy levels. Momentary introversion for extrotims (and extroversion for introtims). Main EM types are found here.


    Alter-Super-Ego

    ILE -#Si +@Fe . . EIE -@Ti +#Se . . SEE -#Ni +@Te . . LSE -@Fi +#Ne
    SEI -@Ne +#Ti . . LSI -#Fe +@Ni . . ILI -@Se +#Fi . . EII -#Te +@Si
    ESE +@Ti -#Ne . . SLE +#Ni -@Fe . . LIE +@Fi -#Se . . IEE +#Si -@Te
    LII +#Fe -@Si . . IEI +@Se -#Ti . . ESI +#Te -@Ni . . SLI +@Ne -#Fi


    A harder-to-access part of the just barely unconscious. More accessible, and judged less severely than one's own competence in the Super-Ego, but not as easy and strong as the Alter-Ego (or the Ego, for that matter).


    Main Super-Id

    ILE +@Si -#Fe . . EIE +#Ti -@Se . . SEE +@Ni -#Te . . LSE +#Fi -@Ne
    SEI +#Ne -@Ti . . LSI +@Fe -#Ni . . ILI +#Se -@Fi . . EII +@Te -#Si
    ESE -#Ti +@Ne . . SLE -@Ni +#Fe . . LIE -#Fi +@Se . . IEE -@Si +#Te
    LII -@Fe +#Si . . IEI -#Se +@Ti . . ESI -@Te +#Ni . . SLI -#Ne +@Fi


    Unconscious desire, more invisible to the self than any of the prior four blocks. Duals and Activators fulfill these desires, but never completely.


    Main Id

    ILE +@Ni -#Te . . EIE +#Fi -@Ne . . SEE +@Si -#Fe . . LSE +#Ti -@Se
    SEI +#Se -@Fi . . LSI +@Te -#Si . . ILI +#Ne -@Ti . . EII +@Fe -#Ni
    ESE -#Fi +@Se . . SLE -@Si +#Te . . LIE -#Ti +@Ne . . IEE -@Ni +#Fe
    LII -@Te +#Ni . . IEI -#Ne +@Fi . . ESI -@Fe +#Si . . SLI -#Se +@Ti


    Deeply unconscious. Diametrically opposed to, and actively suppressed by the views of the Main Ego block.


    Alter-Super-Id

    ILE -#Se +@Fi . . EIE -@Te +#Si . . SEE -#Ne +@Ti . . LSE -@Fe +#Ni
    SEI -@Ni +#Te . . LSI -#Fi +@Ne . . ILI -@Si +#Fe . . EII -#Ti +@Se
    ESE +@Te -#Ni . . SLE +#Ne -@Fi . . LIE +@Fe -#Si . . IEE +#Se -@Ti
    LII +#Fi -@Se . . IEI +@Si -#Te . . ESI +#Ti -@Ne . . SLI +@Ni -#Fe


    A means of overcoming the dictates of the Super-Ego (including the PoLR). Hard-earned, incredibly valuable insights.


    Alter-Id

    ILE -#Ne +@Ti . . EIE -@Fe +#Ni . . SEE -#Se +@Fi . . LSE -@Te +#Si
    SEI -@Si +#Te . . LSI -#Ti +@Se . . ILI -@Ni +#Te . . EII -#Fi +@Ne
    ESE +@Fe -#Si . . SLE +#Se -@Ti . . LIE +@Te -#Ni . . IEE +#Ne -@Fi
    LII +#Ti -@Ne . . IEI +@Ni -#Fe . . ESI +#Fi -@Se . . SLI +@Si -#Te


    Mystery block. Hidden aspects of the obvious.
    p . . . a . . . n . . . d . . . o . . . r . . . a
    trad metalz | (more coming)

  29. #69
    fka noki, zap, ath kopyk's Avatar
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